How can I determine if magnetic starter (switch) on my Grizzly 1023 is damaged?

I have not been able to start a Griz 1023 saw that I recently bought used (and yes, it ran in the garage of the guy I purchased it from). I moved it on a trailer about 30 miles, so it's possible that the starter could be damaged if they are delicate. I have no experience with these magnetic starters.

I detect current at the switch. I checked all the wiring connections to the motor and blew/vac'd out the extra dust. Everything 'seems' ok there.

Is there a way to test the switch without taking it out and wiring it to something else?

Any troubleshooting advice would be much appreciated. I don't want to order a replacement starter if it isn't the problem.

Thanks, Jeff

Reply to
JJ
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Jeff

More details needed. What voltage are you using and what voltage is the saw setup for? Are you positive of the connections where the saw is connected to? Is there any action at the saw starter, switch or motor? Any smoke? A lot of saws are in everyday use and not connected properly, having been cheated to make them go and never correctly connected.

If nothing happened on the way home the likely problem is the hookup. If something did happen the likely problems are almost unlimited. What I do in this case is to take it all apart, the electrical that is, and start again.

A shot in the dark is the capacitor switch in the motor but if it was that the motor would probably hum or smoke.

So more details please.

Bob AZ

Reply to
Bob AZ

If you've got voltage into the switch, and no voltage out of the switch then something in the switch is defective. You'll have to open the switch to determine whether the problem is in the switch(s) that feeds the contactor coil or in the contactor/relay itself.

If you have the proper voltage out of the switch, and the connections to the switch and the motor are good, you should have the proper voltage at the input to the motor. If not, the problem is in the wiring between the switch and the motor.

If you have the proper voltage at the motor, and the motor gives no indication of getting power; tries to turn over, hums, etc., then the problem is in the motor. Look for a reset button on the motor case somewhere. If the magnetic switch is just that, a magnetic switch instead of a starter that contains an overload/overtemp breaker, the motor should have its own internal overtemp protection. There should be some notation to that effect on the motor dataplate. It could be shown as either auto or manual. If manual there will be a reset button somewhere on the motor. If auto, it should reset itself after the motor has cooled.

If the motor does give some indication of receiving power but won't start and come up to speed, the problem could be nothing more than a bad capacitor in the motor. Not likely because if that were the case, you'd probably be blowing a circuit breaker.

Tom Veatch Wichita, KS USA

Reply to
Tom Veatch

Thanks for all the info. I will check it out tonight after I struggle through another six hours at my day job. :( Haha.

I know that I do have the proper voltage to the switch. So I'll do the checking past that to the motor. There is absolutely no indication from the motor that it receives power though. I will post another note when I find out more information.

Jeff

Reply to
JJ

Since you said "---detect current at the switch---", I will assume that you are somewhat light on "electricity". Detecting CURRENT would mean that electricity is flowing in the circuit and so something would be turning, humming or smoking. Since this is not the case, you probably meant that you detected VOLTAGE somewhere along the line. So, to help you get started troubleshooting this saw I recommend you visit these sites:

JJ wrote:

Reply to
spaco

Sorry, I pushed the wrong button!

Since you said "---detect current at the switch---", I will assume that you are somewhat light on "electricity". Detecting CURRENT would mean that electricity is flowing in the circuit and so something would be turning, humming or smoking. Since this is not the case, you probably meant that you detected VOLTAGE somewhere along the line. So, to help you get started troubleshooting this saw I recommend you visit these sites:

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will use an ohmmeter with the power disconnected. This is good for personal safety.

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might try googling "Magnetic starter wiring" to find out more about how they work.

Pete Stanaitis

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JJ wrote:

Reply to
spaco

JJ wrote: ...

...

Are you absolutely sure of that -- that is, are you sure your shop is on same source voltage as the shop from which it came? (IE, I wouldn't trust the cord plug as an indicator necessarily of 120V instead of 240V as I've seen more than once the voltage on the motor be changed w/o changing the plug on the pre-made cord).

Also, there are "heaters" (really fusible links) in the starter -- check for continuity there--if there were a problem it's possible when you first tried it they opened.

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Reply to
dpb

Yes, voltage. Sorry, typing too fast. Thinking too little.

Reply to
JJ

I guess I wouldn't bet my life on it, but I'm pretty certain the saw hasn't been rewired to run at 120V. All the wiring at the motor and the starter looks to be 'stock' and unmodified.

I will check the heaters as well. Thanks.

Reply to
JJ

Hi Jeff,

I have a clone of this machine here is a link to a question my saw wont start

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it's same as your switch.

Rgds, Phil.

Reply to
Phil

I just wanted to verify that I'm testing for voltage downstream of the switch correctly. If you look at page 53 in the current 1023 manual (or 55 of 72 of the

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echoes what my wiring looks like.

So the way I read that diagram and the way I see it wired, I should only see voltage at the 1/2 and 5/6 leads on the Thermanl Overload Relay WHEN I switch the saw on. Correct?

I confirmed that I do see voltage at L1/1 and L3/5 when I have the saw plugged in.

So, if my assertion about the 1/2 and 5/6 TOR leads is correct, then there is something definitely wrong with the starter, correct?

Thanks all, Jeff

Reply to
JJ

So the section that has the on button. On the top it should read 120 to ground or neutral. When you press the button post B of that switch should go to 120.

When you state that you see voltage you are really stat>>>

Reply to
Jim Behning

Jeff

So how much voltage do you see? From the electrical diagram and the specifications you have a 220 motor, either single phase or 3 phase. A three phase saw would have a 4 pin or blade connector. A quick and easy check will be the number of wires in the motor terminal box. Also the cable connector, the power connector will be at least three connectors or blades.

Don't get hung up on the starter/relay being bad. Find out what is bad and then worry about that part. Do you really have 220 or thereabouts on the input? The cable plug should not be the conventional 110 volt,

3 blade with a ground type. If it is get this right first. Not later when your estate is trying to sell the saw.

FWIW the book and electrical diagram is way better than most. You are fortunate.

Bob AZ

Reply to
Bob AZ

FYI...for the other person responding to this, the saw is 3hp, 240v, single phase.

I am seeing 120v between L1/1 and ground. And also 120v between L3/5 and ground. However, I am most definitely NOT seeing any volts between L1/1 and L3/5.

Thanks for all the input! Jeff

Reply to
JJ

Jeff

From the information posted in this reply and if the saw wiring and cable is wired correctly your/the source of power is 110 volts and/or the receptacle that your cable is connected to is wired incorrectly. Check the voltage at the receptacle where your saw is connected to. It should NOT be a conventional 110 volt receptacle.

Bob AZ

Reply to
Bob AZ

In the US, a 240 volt circuit come from a transformer winding that is 'center tapped'. The center tap is connected to ground/neutral at the distribution panel. The result is equivalent to two 120 volt circuits. The two 120 volt circuits are 180 degrees out of phase. I.e. one circuit is going positive while the other is going negative. The result is 240 volts between the hot sides of the two circuits.

You have indicated that you have 120 volts between the two outputs and ground. That is consistent with normal expectations. However the fact that you are seeing no voltage between the two output says that something is strange. One plausible cause is that your '240' volt supply did not come from two 120 volt circuits that are 180 degrees out of phase. If, instead, the two circuits are in phase (0 degrees) you would see the result that you have.

Check your supply, verify that you have 240 volts between the two hot wires.

Reply to
Dan Coby

So are you using a L6-30 plug? Does the receptacle show 240 volts between the hot legs? Did your electrician run a brand new 10 gauge romex attached to a brand new double pole breaker? An amatuer electrician might say hot is hot and try to jumper both hot legs. Or he might hook both hot wires to the same leg on a breaker. Those people are not called electricians though. ;-)

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asked already.

Reply to
Jim Behning

Thanks for the note Dan. I will verify. Is there any plausible reason that my supply coming off the double pole breaker would not be

180 degrees out of phase?

Jeff

Reply to
JJ

...

Only if used two single pole breakers that picked up the same side of the buss bar or the double isn't correct for the panel and did the same.

I guess the other outlandish possibility would be that both sides of the supply panel are being fed by one side so there's no 240V available from the panel at all but that would really be bizarre installation...

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Reply to
dpb

Distribution panels are setup so that every other breaker position is connected together. The remaining positions are connected to the opposite phase. As a result, double pole breakers have 240 volts between their hot wires. I would be very surprised if there was something different at the breaker. However there may be a problem between the breaker and your switch. For instance, the two hot wires from your switch may not connect to the double pole breaker like you think. A couple of measurements with a voltmeter should give you more information.

Reply to
Dan Coby

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