HF Mortiser saga

[OFWW]

A couple weeks ago I bought a HF Mortise price 189 less 20 %

Put it together and set it up. It could have put a baby to sleep when it rocked. One corner was about 1/8" longer than the rest. I couldn't tell right of the bat so I used a file then switch to a Makita grinder sat there then solid as a rock. The fence groves were tight, so I hand filed them, now slides smoothly and was seated at the bottom of the groove. Made some Mortise slots, worked great, so I went ahead and took the grease coating off everything then was going through a final checkout and noticed that for some reason the bit shifted about 3/16" to the left on the bottom 2" of the stroke. BAH HUMBUG!

Took it back, they only had one badly banged up one left and get this, they were now on sale for 139 bucks. (This week end) So I got a total refund and headed to another place about 15 miles away, they had three in stock. 1 on display 1 box with the back of the cardboard missing, but the Styrofoam looked fine, and one other box that looked really decent. So I bought that one yesterday, 139 less 20% coupon and took it home. Un boxed it, set it up, chucked spun more freely, set up the fence, etc. checked the motor ran fine. Unit sat level out of the box, HURRAY, and then I checked the travel top to bottom smooth, real smooth, no jumping to one side or the other, BUT I noticed on he way down the whole head weave like a drunken sailor. It was real visible, and would never have been able to keep a straight line with boring multiple holes, bummer.

Unit #3, took #2 back and picked up the one with the missing back. The lady manager was kind enough to suggest we pull this one out of the box and check the travel, wobble, etc before I took it home. HAPPY DAY! it all looked real good but the wooden platform wasn't near as nice, she went to the back, pulled out a big phillips screw driver so I could swap the plank, she said I could have both fences when I suggest swapping them too. Cool, Score!

Took it home, cleaned it up, degreased again, set it all up and checked the bit for squareness vertically and it was fine. The only problem I had was one screw hole on the bottom iron plate was cross threaded, but took care of that and now I am a happy camper.

Bottom line on all this, I ended up spending less money. Each mortiser came with spare shaft and chuck. Each one had 1 each 1/4", 3/8" and

1/2" mortise bits. So now I have a lifetime supply of bits, chucks, and motor adapter shafts, toss up as to whether or not it was worth it all, but those people are all nothing less than kind and helpful.

Obviously Whatever factory made these things had poor QC, but the units are solid, simple and massive internal gear for the stress when boring holes. 1/2 hp the same as the other brands so it will all depend on tool maintenance as to how well it works.

Obviously not a Festool, but it will have to do along with routers and jigs.

Just thought I'd pass this on as a worst possible case scenario, this is not one of their high volume tools. YMMV

[Ed Pawlowski]

Thank you for reinforcing my decision to buy a Delta. Cost more, but it was only one trip to the store, one setup, makes good cuts and the chisel does not wander.

If you're happy, that's what counts.

[OFWW]

Not entirely happy yet, seems I now need to verify whether I have a problem with a bit or the bit bushing shifting under a hardwood.

Hope this saga helps others as well. :)

[dpb]

On 10/23/2016 11:01 AM, OFWW wrote: ...

As noted in other followup I'll repeat as it's worth doing so I think--the holddown of the material is just as significant as the rigidity/alignment of the bit/chisel. If the work moves, that's no different than the machine being out of whack in end result.

Yeah, let's people know not to think can get by cheap unless have time to spare to compensate. :) But, then again, we all _should_ already know that; but we all also tend to be greedy.

[dadiOH]

Does the bit drill straight in the same wood without the chisel?

[OFWW]

DURN! You would have to ask that, LOL. I just sat down to write out what happened and then you asked this.

So back I went, took out the bit n chisel and put just the bit in. Drilled a hole straight through the wood. 1/16" from the edge in, and

1/16" out.

[OFWW]

I could be wrong, but as I understand hold downs in this case it is basically to assist in bit/chisel removal from the wood. I do have the hold down snug with the wood however, and the wood does move when the chisel is about 1/2 way through, towards me. It would require a fence on both sides of the wood to keep the wood in place and even then I couldn't count on the hole drifting for the mortise.

I should expect to be able to slide the wood in order to make a 1" x

3/8" by x deep Mortise, at least I think so.

True, but I have had similar QC problems with high priced stuff just as much. But in those cases I have very little patience, figuring I should be getting 100% what I paid for.

[Leon]

In the wood working world some machines simply need to be fiddled with more than others regardless of brand.

Mortisers are one if for nothing else the chisels. Bandsaws are another that come to mind.

[OFWW]

True, and they all require periodic maintenance.

[OFWW]

Had additional problems in that the bits were larger diameter than the chisels. Made the square hole look rounded. Filed off the bit while running then sharpened the bit. Sharpened the chisel to polish per Leon and it improved the ease of cutting but found that the hole drifted toward the operator from the top to the bottom by 1/32" didn't matter if you rotated the chisel the outcome was the same.

Noticed some slop in the bushing for the chisel spindle, couldn't find my shim stock so I stole a bit of the wife's aluminum foil, it was pretty close to perfect for the gap, trimmed a piece to fit and carefully installed and now the hole drifting was reduced to less than

1/64" but still when you expect a tenon to fit a mortise with that much of an angle in 3/4" it would require minor mods to each joint, so I am going to opt out of the HF Mortiser for those reasons, plus the chisels have a 3/4" shank and most new bits n chisels are 5/8" shank.

The last gotcha, after getting it all to work that well, is that the fence is about 3/4" behind the hold down block bracket. Rendering the fence useless without adding a full length spacer, doing major modification to it. It would be worth it for the price of this unit, but not with all the attendant problems that it came with. So it is time for me to bail out of this and give the unit 1 out of 5, but the company 10 out of 10 for the way they handle things.

I now intend to use a router to make the Mortise's for the cabinet doors, in conjunction with a jig of some sort. Way more flexibility on Mortise sizes and bits for them.

Any ideas would be appreciated, for jigs. Short of the Festool, only because of the price

[J. Clarke]

At the simple end take a look at .

A more flexible and complicated jig can be found at .

If you want both the mortise and the tenon, you might want to take alook at the Pantorouter which you can make yourself or buy as an all-metal version. He also has a dedicated mortiser .

Getting up to half-Festool territory the Leigh super FMT is an option-- its big weakness for windows and doors is that it holds the piece being tenoned vertically which imposes a length limitation.

[hubops]

Floating tenons ? ( rather than mortise & tenon )

... just a thought. John T.

[Spalted Walt]

+1

[dpb]

...

...

I forget the light-duty table tops do not have the front fence of their larger/heavier brethren. I've an ancient (ca mid '50s?) Powermatic Model 400 floor model that got at a TVA liquidation auction.

For working the length of a mortise, one reclamps on light-duty machines or the larger, even the Jet, Grizzly, etc., benchtops have moving table so one clamps the work and then the table moves taking the work with it to do the multiple borings. This keeps things aligned much more simply to operate at, of course, higher initial cost. I think you can get into that market at around the $1K price tag; used "old iron" maybe a fair amount under; iirc the PM400 went at $375 or so. The good thing on these is there were a fair number of them that were, as this one, single phase as opposed to the almost universal 3Ph for larger other gear that means needing converter or remotor or otherwise get power...

[Swingman]

Yep, more than most tools and cutting edges.

Sure you'd figure it out, but I use my old Delta mortiser mainly for cutting through mortises these days, and that's were a saddle square, thin leaded pencil, and a well maintained, and immovable fence comes in handy for the reference edge.

I mark both sides of the stock and cut a almost all the way through, finish the cut on the opposite side for obvious (tearout) reasons.

[OFWW]

Now I understand why you locked down the wood. I saw a Powermatic that had adjustable clamps to hold the wood against the fence and if the table was floating as you described here that would make the job sweet.

As it turned out the last alignment problem was an ill fitting bushing for the chisel, the gap between the bushing and the housing was pretty sloppy, not so much for between the bushing and the chisel shaft.

I couldn't find my shim stock, so I used a piece of tinfoil about .001 and wrapped the shim Trimmed and jointed it. It considerably reduced the chisel bit walk. But it was still 1/64" off, not good for cabinet door frames. Then I looked at the fence, what it would take to modify it, and then decided it was much wiser to walk away from it. It uses

3/4" shaft chisels and most people stock 5/8" for the better units.

I'm dropping this idea and going for a router jig. LOL with the time spent on this I could have built a really nice jig ;)

Thanks for your info and advice.

[OFWW]

I seem to remember you saying this before, and it was one of the reasons I considered this path, and took my time on the tool. But all the time I'm thinking, plunge n slide, plunge n slide, as opposed to the chisel n bit. So I am going for a jig setup for now.

I'm going to keep my eyes open for a used Mortiser but I am going to make sure it plunges straight, and the fence is solid.

Hey, the bright side is, I learned a lot about these things.

[dpb]

On 10/24/2016 2:41 PM, OFWW wrote: ...

Not really "floating" they're on ways like a milling machine...but _much_ nicer, yes! :) The more recent models even of the benchtops have, for the most part, also tilting head which can be handy, particularly for things like chair rails that enter at angles if you don't want to make an angle tenon.

I've heard some uncomplimentary things about the current new PM, though, since they're now also offshore; if were going to go that route I'd surely be looking for the "old iron" instead.

[Leon]

Floating tenons are probably better a majority of the time. Often the end of a piece you want to use may not be in good shape and may not offer a strong tenon.

[OFWW]

Thanks for the links, I'm tending towards the popwood project, or a close variant thereof.

I vaguely recall a project where the router was on its side for making a Mortise. I just don't think it did them on the ends of rails.

On those above they just need to have a couple small groves in the sides to keep from a hydraulic lock with glue, and a subsequent blowout if hit too hard with a hammer.