Finish For Cedar - Outdoor Furniture.

[DerbyDad03]

If you were wondering what $1200 of clear Cedar looks likes, here you go. 20 @ 2 x4 x 8, 7 @ 1 x 4 x 10.

If you are wondering what I'm going to do with it, here you go...

If you are wondering how I plan to finish it, so am I.

Seems that Boiled Linseed Oil is the finish or choice for Cedar. I don't have any real issue with that except perhaps for the upkeep. I read this somewhere:

Once a week for a month Once a month for year Once a year for life

Yikes!

I don't want to stain the Cedar, I just want to keep it looking nice. I plan to cover it in the winter, but it's going to to get rained on and get a few hours of sun each day.

Any suggestions would be welcome. Thanks!

[krw]

No suggestions here but has anyone considered IPE for this sort of thing? I'm considering it for deck railing, um, rails with black iron balusters. and white PVC covered (PT) posts.

[Markem618]

I have used an antique oil finish on the cedar stuff I built, but is not outside stuff. I think an oil finish would look good guess as to how often would be 6 months for outside.

Think I would try and not have the end grain on the bottom of the legs for not wicking water.

[hubops]

Many years ago, I used spar varnish on a couple of pine outdoor benches. They sat semi-protected under a patio roof - but left outside all winter - blowing snow etc. the patio was wide open on two sides - to the westerlies - and they still looked like almost new 6 years later when we moved. Just some re-finish required on the legs where the end-grain meets the patio stones and where the finish would have worn off from dragging them around the patio. The Lee Valley web site < General brand > suggests 3 coats - I'm pretty sure that is what I did.. but it was probably a different brand - called spar varnish < boating ? >

John T.

[DerbyDad03]

Spar varnish is shiny, isn't it? If so, that's not the look we want.

Is there a way to make it not shiny (assuming it is)?

[hubops]

The brand that Lee Valley sells comes in gloss semi-gloss satin

Not called spar varnish maybe because it's water based <?>

but it does have the UV and mold inhibiters. John T.

[Sonny]

Long ago I use spar urethane on most of my outside stuff. It will yellow to some extent. Knock down the shine (burnish) with a ScotchBrite pad or crumpled brown paper bag.... steel wool will work, but I don't like cleaning up the filings from the nooks and crannies.

My red maple patio swing was coated with Spar U 30 yrs ago.... partial afternoon sun exposure. I recently power washed it, as 75% of the finish had failed. Only one seat slat has become damaged and unsightly. I don't plan to refinish it, but more likely build a new one with old cypress.

Sonny

[DerbyDad03]

As will most of the finishes I'm looking at. Either yellow over time or start out by ambering :-(

Thanks for that suggestion.

I hate using steel wool on wood for the same reason. I safe it for my pots and pans after SWMBO makes one of her excellent meals. Phenomenal cook but she tends to leave the pots and pans a bit difficult to clean.

In reality, any refinishing I'll need to do (for appearance sake) will be limited to the 3 armrest sections, the front seat rails and the top rails that support the back cushions. Whatever finish I choose will be wipe on because I don't want to have sand any peeling finish (like poly) off every few years.

[DerbyDad03]

From what I've been reading, any polyurethane finish is a b*itch to refinish as it has to be sanded off once it starts to peel. That's why oil based finishes seem to be recommended for exterior work. Just clean and recoat.

It's infuriating trying to find consistently clear comparisons on Pure Tung Oil, Tung Oil Finishes, Pure Linseed Oil and Boiled Linseed Oil. I know the differences between the products but so many articles (and forum responses) start out by explaining the differences and then tend to drop the qualifiers, just calling one Tung Oil and the other Linseed Oil. Most of the time you can't tell if they are talking about Pure or Boiled and Pure or Finish.

As far as General Finishes products, I'm looking their Arm-R-Seal. They have a satin finish, it's wipe-on so it's easy to apply and re-apply, but the ambering may be an issue.

[Leon]

To keep Cedar, or ANY OTHER wood for that matter, looking good outdoors you have two options.

Keep it out of direct sunlight and or reapply a UV blocking type varnish. This deteriorates every few years and had to be removed and reapplied.

Or paint with a quality opaque paint. It still will look good but the wood will not see the sun, or you it.

You have to block the suns UV direct rays to help prevent the wood from turning grey.

My experience is that rains is not as big of an issue as the direct UV light.

FWIW the home that my son bought from us is now 40 years old. The front door is varnished solid fir. During storms it is exposed to rain and the humidity is oppressive in the Houston area. BUT the porch is about 8' deep and the front door NEVER gets direct sunlight. It faces north. The door still looks really good and has never had any maintenance.

Past the suggestions that you did not want to hear, maybe keep it covered with a cover when not in use, not just in the winter. But then critters and mildew may take up residence. To keep it looking good you have to have absolute minimum direct sunlight exposure.

[Leon]

Ipe is a good outdoor wood. BUT it too will fade to a grey color when exposed to sunlight. About 14 years ago I rebuilt 3 home owner park benches out of Ipe. They look great other than a few years of sun exposure when they turned grey.

[Leon]

For certain Spar remains a bit tackey. It has to flex. Once brittle it deteriorates and like all other outdoor finishes it has to be reapplied. I use this on a bench that I built 20+ years ago. It needed to be recoaded every 2~3 years, which the customer did not do.

Steel wool but you may end up with little particles sticking to the surface.

[hubops]

It doesn't say it's for exterior use ? John T.

[Leon]

FWIW power washing unprotected wood will restore the original appearance. BUT it is a bit damaging to the surface and may need to be resanded. This is a good remedy for fences that are not expected to last much over 15~25 years. Today's cedar is not what it used to be.

[DerbyDad03]

That was one of the things I was looking into. There were some forum posts that indicated that it has been used outside, but I didn't see that on their website. There's an indy paint shop that I use a lot and they carry GF products. I'm going to talk to them tomorrow about options.

[DerbyDad03]

What suggestions did I "not want to hear"? I'm open to all options and just discussing pros and cons.

[Leon]

Paint with a quality opaque paint. Then you only have to refinish maybe every 10~15 years.

Clear finishes pretty much only protect against spills that get cleaned up quickly.

For long lasting protection against sun damage you need to block the sun. If you see the color of the wood through the finish some sun is penetrating the clear finish and is reflected back to you. Otherwise you would not see the color of the wood. UV inhibitors are short lived.

What ever translucent or clear finish you use you will have to reapply every few to several years if it is exposed to direct sunlight. The less direct exposure the longer the finish will last.

[Leon]

Something to think about.

If there was a product that did what you want it to do for a long period of time, it would not be difficult to find.

Instead products tell you what features they have and it is up to you to figure out if that suits your needs or not. Most do not state how long the features will actually last....

If you want your cedar project to be the most maintenance free and continue to look good for years to come, treat is like a piece of fine furniture.

And remember even fine wood furniture will fade or darken in your home when exposed to direct sunlight through the window glass. Cherry darkens considerably. And long direct exposure would turn it grey too.

[DerbyDad03]

I guess it's possible that you haven't read all of my posts.

I know that it will need to be attended to every few years, maybe even more often. I don't believe that I ever disputed that or indicated that I wasn't willing to do that. If any of my words made it sound that way, I apologize. The only thing I mentioned that I didn't want to do was sand to remove the old finish as part of the maintenance process. Light sanding before wiping on a few new coats is fine.

The other item I mentioned is that I'm not looking for an overly shiny finish like I've seen with varnishes. Sonny addressed that and I acknowledged his suggestions.

From what I've been reading, an oil finish (Tung Oil, Tung Oil Finish, Linseed Oil, BLO) don't require too much (if any) sanding prior to recoating while varnishes and polyurethane products do. Please correct me if I misunderstood what I've read.

I've also come across some Polymerized Tung Oil Finishes for exterior use that provide UV protection. Like all other exterior finishes, they require maintenance. I'll be making some phone calls when the businesses open tomorrow to get some details.

[krw]

Ipe is commonly used for things like boardwalks, so there are many examples of it around. From what I understand, if it's kept sealed it retains it's great color and grain. It might have to be done every year or two but it's just the rails aren't a big area, unlike an entire boardwalk. It's less than 24' x two rails, at least for the current deck. I'd have to find some 2x6s, at least.