David Marks choice of joinery

yes ; ^ )

OK, care to explain that?

You should get a dish heater.

Or tape one of those photos to the dish. Any one of them should do.

Oh, S&#$, SWMBO walked in while I was looking at that site... There will be hell to pay now... Gee, thanks, Larry...

Greg G.

Why can't you have thru tenons? Seems to me you can just glue the loose tenon in one piece and then just treat it as a regular tenon for purposes of thru tenoning. You'll have to be careful to cut the through mortise from the exposed side towards the joint side in case of some tearout.

On 2 Jan 2004 16:40:37 -0600, jev brought forth from the murky depths:

I suppose that's possible, too. Point taken.

======================================================== Was that an African +

You've heard that if your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

I guess that if you've got a Multi-Router, every joinery solution looks like a loose tenon. :-)

Seriously though, I'd have to say that most craftsmen we think of as "masters" have picked a technique, mastered it, and adapt their designs to the methods they know best. David Marks is no exception.

Kevin

About a month ago my future brother in law (wife's side) asked for help building a bar. I show up and he's got a frame built for it. He had fastened 4x4s to the floor at random distances, twisted 2x4s screwed and glued across at the top, more 2x4s edge glued and screwed for overhangs, more. I took one look and felt mind screwed and nauseous. Nothing level, boards waving at me. I gave him some suggestions (which was all I could do) and got out of there. I'm getting a headache thinking about it.

Went to their (lives with sis in law) place for the Christmas Eve party, bar looked fine. He took a few of my suggestions.

Apparently Future B in law was talking s*it because wife's brother starts busting my balls about being too anal and how I like things done just so. Is this is a bad thing?

Then wife's brother starts some jag about me building cabinets and asks why I didn't just get Kraftmaid? I say because their junk. He goes off on another rant how Kraftmaids quality stuff. And on and on ......*

Which brings me to what Bruce wrote: People don't know the difference, they don't care to know the difference. If it looks pretty it's fine with them.

• This would explain my being an asshole the days around Christmas. A night with these people and I'm ready for homicide.

I feel your pain Mark. They don't even know what to look for.

my condolences for the folks you are now related to....

FWW published a study of joint strength that came to the opposite conclusion. M&T was the strongest, loose tenon, and double biscuits was last. Many of the biscuits sheared along the grain line.

What issue was that - I can't find it in their Index andwould to review it.

As would I. I imagine they pulled the joints apart in tension rather than pressing them apart the way this test did.

To all:

Thanks for all the replies. It is apparent that there is no one proper technique in this situation, simply a matter of using one that you like and are comfortable doing. Someone pointed out that the loose tenons illustrated are similar to using biscuits. I've done that, the project hasn't falled apart, so strength isn't the issue.

Replies in another forum also pointed out the problem of project size in some cases and another problem of grain direction in others as cases of a loose tenon being a better choice than integral.

I assumed David had gotten used to the technique from that multi router he's got. It's really no problem, it's working for him. He's adapted it to other projects.

Of course my own liking of sliding dovetails requires it's own special machine, a Leigh jig. I suppose that relatively speaking not so many own one of those.

Again thanks for all the informative well thought out replies.

The test was in the April 2001 FWW #148. The joints were not pulled apart. M&T tested to be more than twice as strong as double #20 biscuits. The loose tenons were closer. It does not attempt to say whether a joint is 'strong enough' for a particular application.

Thanks for the useless information. How bout telling us what they DID do to the joints?

I'll bet it was in direct shear.

Actually, it was racking like that experienced by a table leg or chair joint. You could read the article if you're really interested instead of attacking the messenger.

He gave you very useful information: He told you where to find the test. Now why don't you, instead of bitching about MOT not doing your homework for you?

Cheers,

Kevin

I'm interested but I have no way of reading the article or I would. Only the table of contents is available online. As for the so-called attack, do you think you provided useful information in your first post?

Now "racking" is good information.