dado on front and back of cabinet drawer only

[Robbie Brusso]

Hey everyone,

I'm working on a cabinet drawer for a spice cabinet box. I have planned on placing the sides on the inside of the front and back of the box and using pocket holes for the joinery. As I thought about it more, I have considere d using a dado joint to insert the bottom of the box (to help ensure it is inserted level), but only cutting out the groove on the front and back of t he box.

I'm sure there are questions abound (why aren't you dadoing the sides and f ront and back, why are you dadoing and pocket holing, why are the sides on the inside of the front and back and not on the outside) - but basically I want to know if there is any value (or any issue) with my intended set-up. I'm a novice - so learning more is always helpful. Thanks in advance!

[Dr. Deb]

n placing the sides on the inside of the front and back of the box and usin g pocket holes for the joinery. As I thought about it more, I have conside red using a dado joint to insert the bottom of the box (to help ensure it i s inserted level), but only cutting out the groove on the front and back of the box.

front and back, why are you dadoing and pocket holing, why are the sides o n the inside of the front and back and not on the outside) - but basically I want to know if there is any value (or any issue) with my intended set-up . I'm a novice - so learning more is always helpful. Thanks in advance!

One very good reason not to do what you are thinking about is the minor iss ue of your bottom getting a warp or bend and ceasing to fit properly, or (w orst case scenario) falling out.

[dpb]

On 6/21/2018 10:16 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: ...

...

While a lot of folks do so, it's not the best option or the traditional--which is to dado the front and sides and leave the back the width of the depth of the drawer. The drawer can then be assembled and the bottom inserted later.

[J. Clarke]

The downside on which is that the bottom sags at the back and stuff falls out behind the drawers where it's a pain in the butt to find.

[dpb]

The back edge of the bottom is pinned (where's Norm's brad gun? :) ) which keeps it in place but is removable for repair if needed...with the advent of plywood instead of solid bottom stock isn't as big an issue, granted...

[-MIKE-]

I've seen drawers constructed that way and they usually have brads in that section to hold the drawer bottom tight against the back or some sort of metal bracket.

Most drawers like that use flimsy 1/8-3/16" hardboard for the bottoms and they sag in the middle of the drawer, anyway. Regardless of how far around the drawer the slots are cut, a thin bottom is a design flaw in my book.

I like the idea of being able to install the bottom before or after assembly. A properly build drawer has a bottom that is stiff enough to only need side support-- anything else is belt & suspenders.

[J. Clarke]

That's the theory. I've had too many drawer bottoms sag at the back to ever be comfortable with that concept.

[dpb]

They're overloaded, then...the bottom needs to be sufficient to support the load in any drawer, no matter how it's constructed.

[dpb]

+1

Drawers were built this way long preceding the invention of the various engineered materials; it's only the more recent advent and with the penchant of commercial cabinets in particular being design to be as cheap as possible to build and cover up the shortcomings with flash o the surface that became such a problem.

I virtually always still use solid bottom panels excepting for the most utilitarian and even then would never go under 1/4" ply for single-wide.

[John McGaw]

Tradition schmadition. Unless you are trying to exactly duplicate some antique piece you should use the best available method and material. I routinely use bottoms that are 1/2" thick solid material, beveled on the bottom surface, and fitted into 1/4" dadoes which are cut into all four sides of the drawer. Sure, I can't easily pop it out for repair, an acceptable thing in my mind, since a 1/2" solid bottoms aren't likely to sag or fail while a bottom tacked into place depends entirely on the fasteners which may pull out or split the stock. If a replacement was actually needed in the future then a simple cut across the bottom of the rear would allow the loose bottom to be slid out.

Oh, and I also use dovetails all the way round -- blind in the front and through at the rear.

[J. Clarke]

They don't come with a capacity marked on them, so saying that they're "overloaded" when they're full of typical household oddments is a bit disingenuous.

[dpb]

On 6/23/2018 4:43 PM, J. Clarke wrote: ...

If the bottom sags, they're overloaded! :)

Now, that they may have been underdesigned so they only will support a minimal amount of "stuff" far under the physical size is something else entirely and pretty much the norm for recent commercial cabinetry...

[dpb]

...

Which is ok provided you leave sufficient expansion room in the grooves...with just a pin is the bottom can move enough sufficiently...

If you prefer that, fine, with the half-inch bottom it's not needed unless it's a very wide drawer and I personally prefer then to only do front/sides...

ymmv, $0.02, etc., etc., etc, ...

[krw]

Beat me to it!

The problem is that one of the fundamental laws of the universe is that "stuff" will accumulate to fit the space given. Weight isn't often of concern.

[DerbyDad03]

Well, eventually it is.

[krw]

Nah, it's the damned drawer's fault.

[Electric Comet]

make some prototypes and if you get lucky they will be usable

sounds like you are trying to do it only one time and avoid any mistakes

how much scrutiny will final product get

[Robbie Brusso]

Sorry for the long delay everyone. I failed to mention a key point: I'd sti ll brad or screw in the bottom along the sides. If not, as many of you have pointed out, the bottom would sag (especially when the depth is 17.5 inche s).

I suppose dadoing along the entire box might make assembly easier. My only issue was that I've never done a dado before so I wanted to take a minimali st approach. But I guess if I'm able to do the front and back properly, I s hould be able to do the sides. I'm using a router table so it should be fai rly straight forward.

And this is for my own kitchen - but my wife is an attentive customer haha.

[-MIKE-]

A couple things. All this talk about sag is a non-issue. You make the bottom strong enough for the intended purpose, period. 1/4" cabinet grade plywood is usually strong enough for smaller drawers, but you might want to go 3/8" which you'll find as 9mm or even 1/2" which you'll find as 12mm in cabinet grade plywood.

You don't have to cut the dado the full thickness of the plywood. You can rabbet the edge of the plywood to match the dado. 1/4" is a common size for that.

About that dado... I would cut a slot to receive the drawer bottom on the sides before I would do it on the front/back. That is, if I had to choose on or the other. The point is, you don't.

Since you're likely using the same plywood for the sides and back of the drawer, it's easier to cut the dado in the plywood before you cut it into the separate pieces. Heck, most cabinet drawers are done with all four sides in plywood, with a separate face anyway, so you can cut all 4 dados as one on the plywood before cutting out the sides.

In other words it's easier to cut dados in all sections of the drawer than it is to cut it in only two.

[Electric Comet]

usually there are no complaints unless it fails somehow

if your first prototype works then congrats if not maybe it can be reworked and become prototype two

and so on

perfect should not get in the way of good enough

but if it is meant to become an heirloom then maybe you spend more time