I actually have had my eye on the Delta 650 for a few months now. It's
exactly the same price at HD...$599 CAN.
I've been doing ww for quite a long time, but never had the workshop square
footage to accommodate a tablesaw. New house, lots of room, and the only
thing missing is.....
Thanks for all the responses. I'm not chomping at the bit to get it into my
hot little hands ASAP, and am not going to make any kind of impulse buy on
something like this.
BUT...(and this was a hard learned lesson)
A few years ago my wife and were driving through our neighborhood on a
Saturday morning. She spotted a garage sale and go tme to pull over.
Expecting nothing more than the usual assortment of glasses, excercycles,
and soiled baby clothes, I waited in the car listening to Car Talk. She came
back a few minutes later to tell me there appeared to be a table saw for
sale. Unexcited, and figuring it was a Canadian Tire benchtop box, I
shuffled over, only to find a nearly mint, full size 1970's Rockwell Beaver
contracter...for 35 bucks! Some SOB had bought it not 2 minutes before I got
there. I asked the seller if I could just switch it on once. Oh, did that
baby sing!! Do you feel my pain?
Now I drag HER to garage sales.
So I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing a great deal. I guess not.
"Highspeed" < firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote in message
For what it's worth: AFAIK, that particular saw MAY have the older,
under-sized miter gauge slot. It also may not. Otherwise, the 13 amp
motor means they've got what is basically classed a "true" 1-1/2 HP
motor (Delta runs 12, as do many others). The Align-A-Rip is not a
world beater as a fence, but it is good.
As someone noted, the Grizzly 0444 may be a better saw, but you'd have
to drive to Bellingham to get one, and I'm not at all sure that
Canadian Customs will let you back through the door without a hefty
Then someone was blathering about not being sure you can take it back,
etc. Uh, this is Sears. Now, that's not as good as, say, Lee Valley,
but in general Sears stands by their stuff fairly decently.
What I'd do: go to the store, with cash for the full price, but with 75
or 100 bucks in a separate pocket. Offer the cash, with it held in your
hot little grasp, for maybe 75-100 bucks less than what they're asking.
See what happens. Odds are you'll get a few bucks more off, but even if
you don't, the saw sounds like a reasonable buy to me.
To me, 'scratch and 'dent' means "yard sale" time, which means don't
offer what they're asking unless you have to.
Since I was the "blatheret", I'll clarify the thought process--for
mainline merchandise, sure--no question...whether they might not have a
no-return condition on a floor model fire sale is a prudent question
worth asking about, imo....ymmv.
That's not quite the same thing as if when you get it home you decide
you <really, really> don't like/want it, after all...especially if you
can't try it out. That's one thing I never liked much about Craftsman
showrooms--you could never try anything. Major manufacturer
distributors (at least used to have) operating showrooms...the online
craze has pretty much eliminated them, however, so that probably is no
difference than anywhere else these days.
As you maybe able to tell, I've not bought a <major> piece of equipment
in almost 20 years now. Once the barn is done and the shop goes up in
the mow, I'm hoping to change that significantly, however... :)
Good luck finding a place to test drive ANY tool these days, even when
you don't go on-line to buy. Sears has multi-line merchandise, and I'm
reasonably sure the lady buying some new panties isn't going to be
thrilled to find sawdust in them when she gets home. The same holds
true even at HD and Lowe's, where testing tools could readily fling
dust into washing machines and telephone systems.
Most of the distributors are now gone in this area. They primarily
served two markets, furniture manufacturers and schools. The schools
mostly bailed on woodworking classes a decade or so ago, and most of
the furniture places are in the process of folding their tents, in
anticipation of moving to China or Viet Nam or a similar place. But
what the hell. That's where most of the tools are coming from now. And
when I say most, I don't mean 51%. It is more like 90% and rising.
I think the ones w/ retail/display outlets are in most places....I don't
consider the Borgs nor Sears as distributors, anyway, though. I know of
one place in Raleigh (or at least did a couple of years ago when I had
sufficient time while visiting son to take a side trip--didn't have the
time this past summer). There were places still in Knoxville when I
left there 5 years ago, and I "test drove" the PM66 and Model 27 at
McFeeley's in Lynchburg...but that's been over 25 years ago now...
I'm sure when I go for the moulder and larger planer I'll just bite the
bullet and go w/ one of the big boys and be done w/ it...the mill shop
in Wichita has a new numeric-controlled machine they ran the siding for
the barn through for me--it's nice but $25k is about twice what I want
to try to stay within....
As far as I know, McFeely's is totally mail order now. And doesn't sell
stationary power tools anyway.
I know years ago there was a distributor in Roanoke, but it aimed
mostly at school based customers even back then. I don't know if it
still exists, and the ability of the average person to gain entry to
such places is exceptionally limited anyway, and, AFAIK, always has
I really don't know--I left Lynchburg in roughly '80 and it's now been
15 years or maybe more since I've even been back to visit old buddies at
B&W. At the time I was there they were <the> general distributor for
almost everything our type wanted as toys :) -- primarily wholesale, of
course, but also would handle OTC sales. I ordered the PM stuff through
them for direct pick up in McMinnville as I was in the process of moving
to Oak Ridge at the time. Knoxville had TN Mining as well as a Delta
factory support/repair center which also had a sale/showroom in those
I know the place, but can't think of the name at present...I don't know
its fate, either. A buddy and I were doing decoupage plaques at the
time--he had dropped out of school after starting on his own w/ a single
spindle old Craftsman light-duty shaper peddling them through Davis
Paint in Lynchburg. Davis was selling them like hotcakes and financed
him to buy a larger planer and shaper and gave him shop space in their
basement (one of the big old retail/manufacturing multi-story brick
buildings downtown w/ 3 levels of basement of 10-12'ft height and
massive wood beam/columns...pretty spooky in the "mausoleum" :) ). I
was brand new out of school and saw ad where he was selling the small
shaper and answered it. We then built stuff together and grew it to
something like 40,000 lb-ft/yr turning the high-platform shoe bottoms
for Lynchburg Shoe. Consequently, we had access to anywhere...
Ah, the memories... :)
That's the saw I have. Heh, so I didn't know any better at the time :^)
It has been reliable for me, although the motor's belt pulley has a tendency
to try to slide off the motor shaft that no amount of tightening has ever
completely suppressed. It was reasonably well alligned to start, the the rip
fence seems to stay perpendicular reasonbly well. I don't have a good measure
of runout for the arbor to give you. Nothing about the saw has caused me
to run screaming from the shop yet, with determination to replace it. Nothing
about it has endeared it to me for all time either.
James T. Kirby
Center for Applied Coastal Research
I feel that Sears, maybe Shears(?), has moved beyond "fairly decent".
Ordered tools on line from West Coast of US and was told my credit
card was denied so order was cancelled. Ordered from Lowe's. Tools
were received on East Coast despite cancelled order. Contacted Shears
who said they'd credit tool charge but NOT shipping charges. After
prolonged E-mail exchanges our son waited in line for an hour and they
refused credit to card and gave him a gift card for tool charge.
Credit card company cancelled the S&H charge. I HATE HMO mentality!
Ok - You asked. I have seen some of the supposed-Craftsman cabinet saws in
the store and that was what I was expecting to see when I opened the link.
It wasn't. and I cannot imagine they are asking that kind of money for this
I just sold a 70's vintage Craftsman that I paid $240 for and recently sold
for $75. It never was a great saw but I muddled along for years before I
upgraded to a Grizzly 1023s. This machine looks a lot like that old
The only bargin here is the current vs list price - and that is not a
bargin. If you have $480 to spend take a look at www.grizzly.com. They have
a good line of contractor's saws and reasonably priced cabinet saws. If you
can afford more cash look at the Grizzly 1023 series or the JET and Delta
Unisaws. IMHO the JETS and Unisaws are overpriced compared to the 1023 but
others have different opinions.
The table saw is the heart of the workshop. Get a good one.
I have a saw very similar to it, but with a larger motor, and am very happy
But I paid $200 for it used two years ago when the one pictured was selling
for $500 new.
I would not consider paying $480 for a floor model, unless table saws are
really expensive in Canada for some reason.
This doesn't strike me as an extraordinarily good deal but it's not exactly
a rip-off either. There is no doubt that better tools are made but when a
Craftsman is all you can get...or all you can afford...the choice is a
I have a Craftsman table saw...an OLD one that has a flexible shaft to drive
the blade. I bought it (in terrible shape) for a VERY low price, restored
it, threw away the blade and fence and added a carbide blade and a new
Craftsman Align-a-Rip fence.
Is it a Delta Unisaw? No, and I make no pretense that it is. It is also
not a high-end contractor saw but with patience and careful setups I can do
good work. I don't try to do fine furniture but the carcases I build are
The Align-a-Rip fence is no Biesemeier but if I take my time to ensure there
is no sawdust in the rail groove and tweak it carefully before I lock it
down, I get demonstrably square cuts.
Bob, if you decide to go with the Craftsman, get a decent blade and...this
is important...buy a dial indicator. You can get one for around $15US at
Harbor Freight. Use it to carefully align the miter slot to the arbor...and
then the fence to the miter slot.
You may also want to face the fence with melamine or Baltic birch to protect
it from the unthinkable. I did.
Just one additional comment: I consider my dial indicator to be the most
important tool in my shop. It's not one I use every day but nothing can
adequately replace it.
In a nutshell, why buy a Craftsman when for the same money you can have an
equivalent unit from Jet, Delta, Grizzly or General?
If you have to ask about the quality of the unit, it probably ain't there.
I had a Craftsman for over 20 years that served me well as my first saw.
When I got serious about woodworking and demanded exactness and performance,
I had to upgrade the saw with better wings and a "real" fence (Incra, not
the POS that came with it that never stayed aligned). After spending 300
bucks on upgrades, I ended up taking the upgrades off, selling the old saw
to a newbie, and buying a Jet contractor saw. I never regretted it, other
than not taking the big leap to a cabinet saw.
<<They say the first rule of journalism is to never ask a question unless
already know the answer, but I will plead ignorance.>>
At the risk of initiating thread drift, I would just like to point out that
this is most certainly not the first rule of journalism and I would be
willing to guess it's not a rule of journalism at all. If a reporter
already knows the answers to all the questions he is about to ask, he
shouldn't be wasting anybody's time asking them. This is not to suggest
that he ought to be completely ignorant (it's a good idea to have at least
some familiarity with the subject), but if he asks only questions for which
he already knows the answers, he is unlikely to unearth any new and
potentially useful information.
Of course there are always exceptions and one instance where this "rule"
does come into play is in a TV newscast when, at the conclusion of a live
on-the-scene report, the anchorman asks the field reporter a follow-up
question, it is usually one that they have discussed beforehand so the
anchorman doesn't ask a stupid question and the reporter doesn't look
foolish because he was asked something he can't answer.
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"
No, it's not. The first rule of journalism is that there are no rules.
If a journalist allows himself to be completely governed by rules, he
misses out on many, many excellent opportunities to elicit useful and
interesting information from interview subjects, especially in
You really need to find a better class of friends. <g>
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