Craftsman tablesaw...that bad?

[bob]

They say the first rule of journalism is to never ask a question unless you already know the answer, but I will plead ignorance. The local Sears scratch-'n-dent warehouse has a Craftsman tablesaw just sittin' there in the front entrance. It lists for $999 CAN (that's about 40 bucks US - actually about $800) and they're unloading it for $599 (roughly $480 US)

It looks like this....

fence (very solid), nice table, etc. Obviously a floor model, never used, but kicked around a bit.

So, how bad can it be? I know it's like a religion or a badge of honour to diss Craftsman - hell, even I do, and I've never owned a Craftsman tool in my life - but is it always true? If I went out and bought a Delta for $599 list, would I still be better off? Is it just de rigeur to knock Craftsman, or are their tools really that poor? I'm just asking cuz I don't know. I've found a gazillion posts of how everything they've made for the past 20 years is a POS, but what about their more pricey items like this one?

No, I don't have my heart set on it, but it "seems" like a good deal.

Fire away!

Bob

[cyberben]

A table saw is too much of an important tool to let go several hundred dollars to something you're not 100% sure about. Crapsman tools have a bad resell value so do you want to find it the hard way and get stuck with it?

We're not talking of a 50$ cordless drill or a small sander that you can easily throw in the garbage if it's not good... It's a table saw, the main central power tool of a woodworking shop... Get a General Inter at least and shell out the 900$ for it. You will never regret it.

Cyberben

[John "The Toymaker" Gilham]

ok...here goes. I had a saw just like that...I even paid to ship it overseas...why, because it was better than what I could get there. But after doing all that, I found that the saw part, the top and trunions were fine...but the case..the sheet metal that supported the top was too light. The engineers knew this because they back engineered a stiffener where the tilt adjust is. I ended up taking the top off and adding steel el brackets and angle iron to the sides and top edge to give it more strength. Then I sold it off...

Now I own a Delta unisaw.... lot more money...but a LOT more saw.

[rob]

Why would you spend $480 US on a saw with a questionable fence ?

Is the motor direct drive ?

For $475 US you could get the grizzly contractor saw with a real fence and a belt driven blade. I bet in CDN $ its even cheaper.

first table saw was a craftsman, it was impossible to keep the fence in alignment. The internals were all aluminum and plastic.

rob

[Duane Bozarth]

I don't know for sure on the particular model but I'll make a few comments to look at in deciding...

Have you looked at the motor mount/trunnions, etc., to get an idea how solid it is actually made underneath? What I know of for sure that scares me w/ Craftsman promo is the "developed hp" label...what is the rating on the motor and is it a known item or some no-name Chinese POS? How much does it weigh in comparison w/ the others you're interested in? Weight is good and usually a reasonable indicator of solidity. Can you test drive it by any chance? Is it returnable if you can't and you get it home and it isn't satisfactory?

I the answers to the above are satisfactory, it could be ok....it seems that there has been some attempt towards recovery by Sears recently. Whether this model is a success or not, I have no solid data on.

Nothing solid, but maybe it'll help point out a problem if there is one...

[bridger]

a buddy of mine bought either that saw or one close to it in the lineup. it was fine. it's a middle of the road contractor saw. the two piece rail is a pain. the openwork wings are finger pinchers. belt flutter was an issue. fence action os fine and it locks tight enough.

he sold it at the end of the job, so my impressions are based on the saw being new. I have no data on what breaks/wears out first/worst.

[Ray]

Don't know about the newer models, but older sears saws would not accept 'standard' miter gauges. In other words all of the accessories had to be bought from sears also.

[tom_murphy]

IMHO, it's only a good deal compared to the list price, which is way out of line. Think about it, would you even consider that saw for $800 US? That's getting into the range of a Grizzly cabinet saw which seems to be quite popular here on the rec. That tells you that it's overpriced to begin with. Personally I don't think it would even be a good deal brand new for $480, when you can get a Grizzly G0444 for $475 plus shipping, and I promise it's a LOT more saw (I own a G0444Z). Also look at the current draw, that's a 1 HP motor no matter what they advertize, while the G0444 is a REAL 1.5 HP. Kick in another $80 and you get the G0444Z with a REAL 2HP. Both models have the Bies clone fence which is excellent, BTW!

Maybe used gear is tougher to find in Canada, but I regularly see Delta or Jet contractor saws in the classifieds listed around $500.

I'm not saying that the Craftsman is not a decent saw that could work for you, but I think $480 is WAY too high by comparison to more highly regarded saws. If it was $300, I'd say go for it, but I'd hate to see you spend almost $500 much on a questionable machine.

I know what you're feeling, it's right there, APPEARS to be a good deal, and you could have it in your garage TODAY! Don't let your emotions lead you astray. Be patient. If you must have immediate gratification (and believe me, I understand this) order the Griz G0444 ($475 US) and skip a dinner out to cover the shipping. Better yet, skip

2 or 3 dinners out and get the G0444z with the cast iron wings and 2HP. That'll make you feel better and I promise you you'll be happier with it!!

Okay now, deep breath, count to ten and go to

Best of luck to you, Tom

[Clint]

Except Grizzly won't ship to Canada.

Clint

[Charlie Self]

For what it's worth: AFAIK, that particular saw MAY have the older, under-sized miter gauge slot. It also may not. Otherwise, the 13 amp motor means they've got what is basically classed a "true" 1-1/2 HP motor (Delta runs 12, as do many others). The Align-A-Rip is not a world beater as a fence, but it is good.

As someone noted, the Grizzly 0444 may be a better saw, but you'd have to drive to Bellingham to get one, and I'm not at all sure that Canadian Customs will let you back through the door without a hefty charge.

Then someone was blathering about not being sure you can take it back, etc. Uh, this is Sears. Now, that's not as good as, say, Lee Valley, but in general Sears stands by their stuff fairly decently.

What I'd do: go to the store, with cash for the full price, but with 75 or 100 bucks in a separate pocket. Offer the cash, with it held in your hot little grasp, for maybe 75-100 bucks less than what they're asking. See what happens. Odds are you'll get a few bucks more off, but even if you don't, the saw sounds like a reasonable buy to me.

To me, 'scratch and 'dent' means "yard sale" time, which means don't offer what they're asking unless you have to.

[Duane Bozarth]

Charlie Self wrote: ...

Since I was the "blatheret", I'll clarify the thought process--for mainline merchandise, sure--no question...whether they might not have a no-return condition on a floor model fire sale is a prudent question worth asking about, imo....ymmv.

[Highspeed]

I guess the Americans don't realize that Grizzly doesn't ship to Canada. Now on to the question.

I have the same saw. I got it for Christmas and I am very happy with it. The top is sturdy, 1.5" thick, 27" deep and I don't know how wide. The mitre gauge is a standard 3/4" x 3/8", so you can use any after market parts. The Fence leaves something to be desired but you can upgrade when convenient, I have not yet done so but I am thinking about it. I removed the base from the saw and mounted it on a cabinet (for storage space) and I also replaced the standard belt with a link belt. The splitter/blade guard is awful and has yet to see use on the saw, I use an MJ splitter from Lee Valley. I rewired the plug to 220V, no problems, and the actual "cabinet" that the top is mounted to is very sturdy (unlike the other reply says, might be redisigned). Dust collection like all contractors saws is leass than pleasant but is possible with a little brain work.

If I had to do it all again, I would probably buy a King Cabinet saw. The Delta 36-650C from HD, and the King contractors saw would get close consideration, along with the Jet from

This Craftsman would also be considered.

I am happy with it but for the money spend another $100 or $200 and get something better.

Lars

[James T. Kirby]

It has been reliable for me, although the motor's belt pulley has a tendency to try to slide off the motor shaft that no amount of tightening has ever completely suppressed. It was reasonably well alligned to start, the the rip fence seems to stay perpendicular reasonbly well. I don't have a good measure of runout for the arbor to give you. Nothing about the saw has caused me to run screaming from the shop yet, with determination to replace it. Nothing about it has endeared it to me for all time either.

Jim Kirby

[bob]

I actually have had my eye on the Delta 650 for a few months now. It's exactly the same price at HD...$599 CAN.

I've been doing ww for quite a long time, but never had the workshop square footage to accommodate a tablesaw. New house, lots of room, and the only thing missing is.....

Thanks for all the responses. I'm not chomping at the bit to get it into my hot little hands ASAP, and am not going to make any kind of impulse buy on something like this.

BUT...(and this was a hard learned lesson)

A few years ago my wife and were driving through our neighborhood on a Saturday morning. She spotted a garage sale and go tme to pull over. Expecting nothing more than the usual assortment of glasses, excercycles, and soiled baby clothes, I waited in the car listening to Car Talk. She came back a few minutes later to tell me there appeared to be a table saw for sale. Unexcited, and figuring it was a Canadian Tire benchtop box, I shuffled over, only to find a nearly mint, full size 1970's Rockwell Beaver contracter...for 35 bucks! Some SOB had bought it not 2 minutes before I got there. I asked the seller if I could just switch it on once. Oh, did that baby sing!! Do you feel my pain? Now I drag HER to garage sales.

So I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing a great deal. I guess not.

Bob

[bob]

FWIW, they offer the full 2 year warranty.

[Duane Bozarth]

That's not quite the same thing as if when you get it home you decide you don't like/want it, after all...especially if you can't try it out. That's one thing I never liked much about Craftsman showrooms--you could never try anything. Major manufacturer distributors (at least used to have) operating showrooms...the online craze has pretty much eliminated them, however, so that probably is no difference than anywhere else these days.

As you maybe able to tell, I've not bought a piece of equipment in almost 20 years now. Once the barn is done and the shop goes up in the mow, I'm hoping to change that significantly, however... :)

[RonB]

Ok - You asked. I have seen some of the supposed-Craftsman cabinet saws in the store and that was what I was expecting to see when I opened the link. It wasn't. and I cannot imagine they are asking that kind of money for this contractor-LOOKING saw.

I just sold a 70's vintage Craftsman that I paid $240 for and recently sold for $75. It never was a great saw but I muddled along for years before I upgraded to a Grizzly 1023s. This machine looks a lot like that old machine.

The only bargin here is the current vs list price - and that is not a bargin. If you have $480 to spend take a look at

They have a good line of contractor's saws and reasonably priced cabinet saws. If you can afford more cash look at the Grizzly 1023 series or the JET and Delta Unisaws. IMHO the JETS and Unisaws are overpriced compared to the 1023 but others have different opinions.

The table saw is the heart of the workshop. Get a good one.

[Larry]

I have a saw very similar to it, but with a larger motor, and am very happy with it. But I paid $200 for it used two years ago when the one pictured was selling for $500 new.

I would not consider paying $480 for a floor model, unless table saws are really expensive in Canada for some reason.

[John Girouard]

Clever.

/sarcasm

[Chuck Hoffman]

This doesn't strike me as an extraordinarily good deal but it's not exactly a rip-off either. There is no doubt that better tools are made but when a Craftsman is all you can get...or all you can afford...the choice is a no-brainer.

I have a Craftsman table saw...an OLD one that has a flexible shaft to drive the blade. I bought it (in terrible shape) for a VERY low price, restored it, threw away the blade and fence and added a carbide blade and a new Craftsman Align-a-Rip fence.

Is it a Delta Unisaw? No, and I make no pretense that it is. It is also not a high-end contractor saw but with patience and careful setups I can do good work. I don't try to do fine furniture but the carcases I build are square.

The Align-a-Rip fence is no Biesemeier but if I take my time to ensure there is no sawdust in the rail groove and tweak it carefully before I lock it down, I get demonstrably square cuts.

Bob, if you decide to go with the Craftsman, get a decent blade and...this is important...buy a dial indicator. You can get one for around $15US at Harbor Freight. Use it to carefully align the miter slot to the arbor...and then the fence to the miter slot.

You may also want to face the fence with melamine or Baltic birch to protect it from the unthinkable. I did.

Just one additional comment: I consider my dial indicator to be the most important tool in my shop. It's not one I use every day but nothing can adequately replace it.