Can you guys suggest some specific products for those of us who don't know this stuff?
As boring as a product like caulk is, I'm learning something here...
Thanks!
---------------------------------------------
**---------------------------------------------
Nova wrote in news:l095k.20427$3j2.12410@trnddc03:
Think it would work alright if you used the silicon caulk, and after applying added some sawdust on the outside? That way, the saw dust would be embedded in the caulk, and hopefully take paint. I think they actually use a similar process with teflon pans.
I realize it's definately a "the store's closed, and this has GOT to get done NOW" solutions.
Puckdropper
You could if you're truly desparate try . No guarantees that it will work with any silcone other than the same company's casting materials though.
Painted
I also find Bondo a bit harder to work since it is so darn sticky (it sticks to any type of tool you use to apply it and shape it). I also have noted that when it is sanded thin it can sometimes peel off (probably what you mean by poor adhesion).
But it is cheap and I have used it successfully for interior, non-structural uses.
Still curious whether this is just high priced Bondo or whether it is more like a SystemThree epoxy. The fast setup time and mention of drawing out a thin bead of hardener plus the description of a noxious volatile odor reminds me more of Bondo.
I have used SculptWood a bit my only complaints are: - It's pricey (as you mention) - It is also hard to tool but it's the opposite extreme of Bondo -- I find that it is not sticky enough and that it is hard to lay out a thin layer with a putty knife - though it is great for filling bigger gaps or for shaping missing pieces.
On the positive side, it is easy to mix (just knead together two equal size balls), it has minimal odor, and it has a longer setup time than Bondo (actually I would love to have something between the 5-10min pot time of Bondo and the 8 hours or so it takes SculptWood to harden enough to sand)
I'm curious about Abatron since they advertise a lot in Fine Homebuilding and other mags.
OK - Now you have tickled my interest.
- How would I make up a SculptWood equivalent using epoxy and fairing? - What products would you recommend? - What proportions?
- Would the epoxy+fairing mixture have the same workability when mixed? Would it have the same sandability and wood-like machineability when cured?
Would making it yourself really be that much cheaper?
Last time I looked, the West System hardener and Resin were not exactly cheap either. Just to keep the comparisons apples-to-apples, I looked at Jamestown Distributors online and used similar volumes (i.e. I didn't compare pints of one to gallons of another)
System Three Sculpwood: $34 for 2 pint kit (1 each hardener & resin)
West System Epoxy Resin (1 quart) $34.95, Hardener (0.44 pint) $16.25, West Low Density Filler (12 oz) $34.45
So, it seems to me that if anything, making it yourself using West System is even a little more expensive. Am I missing something obvious here?
Thanks, Jeff
True but....
- The quoins have a raised-panel like profile that I would need to match and machine. Also, being 150 years old, they are not likely to be standard dimensional lumber (or synthetic) thickness so I would probably also need to plane it to thickness. Finally, since nearly all the quoins have some cracking, it would be a lot of work given 4 corners (times two sides of each corner) time 2 full stories.
- Given the "historical" nature of the house, I am a bit "snobby" about trying to do a faithful restoration using the original materials like wood (though sometimes I do think that I should just swab the whole house in vinyl siding, vinyl windows, PVC trim, etc. and be done with all the upkeep :)
Thanks
Get the comparison and the low-down over here at my website:
take care, work safe and keep in touch.
John
I've got better things to do than waste my time on Bondo.
So buy a gallon kit, (5 gal bucket if it's a big job) of epoxy (Slow hardener), a bag of mico-balloons and mix your own putty to whatever consistency works for you as well as reduce cost.
You will get at least 30 minute pot life.
If working outdoors, don't work in direct summer sun.
HTH
Lew
See response to previous post.
They are selling you a form of fairing putty.
Yes.
It's all in the packaging.
You are looking at small repair kit pricing.
Buy a 5 gal bucket (45 lbs) of resin and a gallon of hardener and watch the price drop.
A 30# bag of Dicaperl (HP-500) (micro-balloons) was less than $25 the last time I bought a bag.
Yes.
Lew
You wouldn't be planing the PVC down, you'd be building it up if anything.
Here's the matching and machining process. Buy a sheet of expanded PVC (comes in plywood sized sheets and thicknesses up to 1"), run sheet through table saw and cut blocks to size, tilt blade to required raised panel angle, run blocks through table saw on all four sides.
Without seeing your situation, and not knowing the exact dimensions, but being an expert with a lot of experience in wild assed guesses, I'm guesstimating one or two 1" 4x8 sheets per corner - that's about $140 - $280 per corner. The stuff also comes in 16" (nominal) width plank, if that fits your needs better.
The sheets are available in much longer lengths. From the Azek site: "AZEK Sheets are the perfect trim product for pop-out bay window, raised panel, dormers, soffit and other trim applications over 16 inches wide. AZEK Sheets are available in 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, 3/4 and 1 inch thicknesses and in sheet sizes from 4ft x 8ft up to 4ft x 20ft."
I understand the desire to remain faithful, but using expanded PVC trim and painting it, well, you're the only one who would ever know, and the main ways you'd know would be the reduced amount of required maintenance and the extra time and money. Then again it isn't my money and I shouldn't be saving it for you. ;) You also should remember that the guys that built your house would have used a weatherproof and maintenance free product if there were any available back then. Frankly, it would be no different than using Ice and Water Shield under the shingles when you reroof - it's an improvement that doesn't compromise the quality or look of the house at all.
BTW, if you have white trim, you don't have to paint the Azek at all. If you have dark painted trim, you don't want to use expanded PVC - it doesn't like dark paint and strong sun as it expands too much.
R
Yes, please. I second Barry's request!
Until now, I thought the options fer sealing cracks - forget painting over 'em - were silicon caulk and tar. (Ok, not entirely true, but close enough.)
Jason Buckler Marietta, GA
Sounds good. But why is the West Systems micro-balloons fairing soooo much more expensive? (15oz for $30, 14lb for $300!!!!)
(BTW, when I googled, Dicaperl HP-500, I mostly got articles about nuclear waste disposal and couldn't find any online sites selling it -- where can I buy it?)
Also, if I go with West Systems and had to choose one hardener to start, would you recommend the Fast (205), Slow (206), or Extra Slow (209)?
Finally, other than experience and trial-and-error, how do you figure out how much fairing to add?
Thanks
Sounds like phenolic balloons which are super light weight for the race boat crowd.
They are VERY expensive and unneeded for this application unless you plan to race your house in a sailboat race..
Try "Dicaperl" to find a distributor in your area, then ask them for HP-500.
Corporate hd'qrs are here in Torrence (Los Angeles). HP500 mis mined in Colorado, New Mexico area.
You want slow or extra slow.
Ever do any cooking?
You get a feel for it in a hurry.
Mix up 3-4 OZ of resin, then add balloons, mixing until it feels like what you want.
It ain't rocket science.
Just make sure you wear protective clothing such as gloves.
Got a Harbor Freight around you?
Lew
They are getting close... just started entering New England but not Boston yet -- but I plan to take a ride out to one about 50 miles away one day... What do they carry that I should look for?
Thanks Lew
Boxes of non sterile surgical gloves ($5/100 max) and boxes of 2" chip brushes($0.25 ea/max) when on sale.
Check their web site.
BTW, find a restaurant supply house, you are going to need paper cups.
Lew
And save things like Cool Whip containers. Cured epoxy pops right out of them.
It's amazing how many kitchen implements and recycled food containers I have in the shop. I can tell which room I'm in by the smell - the shop smells better! I am one lousy cook and I love the smell of shop. ;)
RWhat you want is an epoxy make for wood repairs like Abatron. I've also used MAS epoxy with wood powder added. Bondo and Minwax wood filler won't be flexible enough. on this old house last season or so, they used stuff from Advanced Repair Technology
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.