Just went to HD tonight. While there I looked at the LED value packs.
24.78 for 4 x 60w equiv.
29.98 for 4 x 75w equiv.
Where are those $2 bulbs? Those were the only multi pack LED's..
ECO brand. I didn't look at the 40w equiv.
but no where near what you guys are able to get.
Still too rich for my blood. At $2 I was going to replace some cfls that
just don't have enough light, but at more than 6.. nah.
At that price, I'll wait for the cfl's to go.
so no, and then again yes. There are some cfls that are just too dark,
so I might bite if I get pissed off enough. but you guys that said HD
had them for $2 a bulb in bulk, that's a good deal, that we here in
western NJ don't share.
As LED's take off look, for the wiring for home lights to be run for
12volts, with a transformer to drop for every couple rooms, or use a
12 volt battery for whole house lighting. There is no reason not to do
it that way, All the lights in my motor home are 12 volt LED's and way
brighter than incandescent's with less amperage draw.
I don't see this happening anytime soon. You may see it with under cabinet
lights or something similar, but not for general room lighting. Why
replace perfectly good and compatible 120V wiring with 12V wiring when it
won't save you anything?
You'll probably have to keep the same size wires because of voltage drop
(you can easily draw enough current with LEDs to make voltage drop an
issue). Couple that with the need for transformers for a low voltage
system in the house and I just don't see it happening. I'm up for civil
discussion about it though. :-)
Actually it is already starting in new custom homes, mostly in the
kitchens with ceiling lamps. One transformer for each run of lamps. I
checked with I thing it was GE or maybe Sylvania on this.
However, you are correct in slow coming for the majority since most
lamps have the voltage reducers built into the bulb, and until the
bulbs become popularly available we will be stuck with the hacked
bulbs. For now most bulbs with be "replacement" self contained bulbs.
The same wire size up to the line transformer, from there to the
fixtures it would depend on total wattage and voltage used. The nice
thing about the LED kitchen recessed lighting is that they are low in
height and many easily fit into a four inch or less area for height
and they run cooler overall.
"New installations only" 8^)
Moving the heat sensitive power supply to a remote location will be a
boost for reliability and significantly reduce the physical dimensions
(namely depth) of the fixture. Think of no hole 'recessed' ceiling lights.
Many LED arrays (talking about the actual emitter here) drop 24V or
higher. The power supply for a string may actually operate at several
hundred volts. In actuality these are constant current supplies, not
Yep, this keep the current constant through the string. If they were
wired in parallel (with a constant voltage supply), the LEDs would need
to be matched in both brightness and temperature/voltage coefficient
otherwise they would all vary a tad in brightness.
There are multi-channel supplies that allow parallel operation, except
in reality they can be considered as multiple power supplies inside the
same box (pair of wires to each fixture).
LEDs are fickle devices, but when properly treated, the chances of a
dead LED in a string is rather 'dim'.
There are tricks that allow a remote supply to feed each fixture in
parallel where the fixture has the final current regulation inside. This
puts the majority of the heat sensitive parts far away, but some
efficiency is lost.
Look at all the LED's on new 12 volt vehicles.
I wired my specialty flood lights in parallel and series, and if I
remember properly they were both 6 volt based for the whole thing.
It has been a few years since I made the stuff. I know that they make
a nice explosion per bulb if improperly wired, just don't be near the
Nothing quite like an expensive LED letting it's smoke out...
Cheaper LED lights that only require a fixed voltage often have small
resistors to regulate (actually limit is more correct) the current.
These are pure energy efficiency losses.
Of course consideration must be given to having an LED power supply
'system' running at only 80% efficiency compared with the efficiency of
what you are replacing. If peak efficiency is not a big deal, then fixed
voltage lamps are certainly a good option.
Not necessarily, here's why. Although I can agree with you in
principle all wiring connections in J-boxes come loose over time and
as they do the resistance increases and so does the electric bill.
Especially with aluminum wiring.
Ceiling lights that are enclosed contain the heat and feed it to the
ceiling and thus to the wiring connections. (With incandescent lights)
I have had shorter than expected life on any bulbs outside of LED.
Anyhow, I have to replace the entire fixture because I got sick and
tired of the problems. When I removed the fixture, I found all the
associated wiring from the fixture, cracked, and pieces laying about.
The wire nuts all showed signs of heat, and the last couple inches of
the house wiring were discolored and very brittle. These were your
typical 4x4 boxes, not the deep ones, and there was very little
"spare" wiring, so I had to be careful and clip the wired where it was
all soft insulation, and then reconnect them to the new fixtures. That
is what drove me to checking out the possibility of LED wiring, with
remote transformers. Since if this happens again then someone is going
to have to crawl the attic and replace the wiring anyhow.
If the J-boxes weren't right next to the fixture you could shoot it
with a temp gun, or infrared camera looking for signs of heat, if so
it needs to be repaired. Most systems when they fail in the J box just
with open up or short against the box.
Chandeliers are very prone to this as is any type of ceiling fixtures.
So what I am saying is that it is a real possibility if you are going
to run new wire anyhow.
Now if the wiring has enough slack in it, then all fixtures could use
the original house wiring with low resistance to 12 volt lighting and
then all that needs to be done is cut the wiring someplace that is
serviceable, and install a transformer between the light switch and
the fixtures. That would be the simple way.
In my MH all I had to do was twist out the old bulbs and insert the
LED's. A bit pricey, but it was worth it for the extra days in the
boonies without burning gas for the generator.
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