Puckdropper snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com on Sun, 28 Feb 2021 08:59:16 GMT typed in rec.woodworking the following:
CAD Class test: take this sketch, make the drawing. As I completed it I asked myself "Can I make this?" {Is everything here to make it to spec?} That tour as a machinist lead me to consider "how to hold this casting for 'finishing' work."
snipped-for-privacy@notreal.com on Sat, 27 Feb 2021 17:47:24 -0500 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
You do seem dedicated to the idea that learning manual skills is never applicable. No need to teach someone how to read a clock or dial, everything is better with digital readouts, yes? Of course it is. For some. I took The Fundamentals of Design class nought but ten years ago. Much use of paper and pencil to learn about descriptive geometry and how it worked.
If you want to go straight to job training using a computer package, go for it.
Yes and no. Sadder are the ones hired as "draftsmen" who apparently can't work from a sketch to a completed drawing, even using CAD.
I remember trying as a high school sophomore to 'draft' a proper "to scale" drawing of a combination closet, student desk, and with bed on top. Dad took a look at my efforts and passed on the words of wisdom: not everything needs to be "to scale". He then told the story of when he'd been working in the woods, and the spring runoff had wiped out the bridge necessary to get logs delivered. The 'schmart guy' spent most of a day trying to figure out how to get the needed pilings in. When he gave up, the wood rats cobbled together a crib of logs with two long logs at the base (sort of like this []__ ), they filled the crib with rocks, and used the dozer to skid that up off the bridge approach. It tipped over, sank and left the two long logs up right to serve as piers. Wasn't exactly square, but you could drive a log truck over it. "It worked". I wonder how many 'kids' have the problem of not being able to guesstimate an imprecise solution because their calculator always gave them 8 decimal places? Which was six or seven too many. I do not need to know exactly the size of the thing, just whether it will fit the space or materials available.
Something to which far too little attention seems to be given.
I know what you mean, but I ENJOY "Get Off Of My Lawn!!!" : )
My dad used to keep a ledger of every purchase he made for his house/garden (even packs of seeds!) Me, I use an Excel spreadsheet! : ) Besides of keeping track of model numbers, dates, and phone numbers, there's a "nostalgia factor" to having the spreadsheet. Like, we planted that tree in 20XX...
I agree, here. To effectively use CAD you have to be able to visualize what you're trying to draw. Sketchup ain't CAD.
I certainly know how to round and trim significant digits (few do) but my calculator does it for me, too. All I have to do is tell it how many are significant. ;-0 When I stopped using a slide rule, I soon lost the ability to estimate and even get the decimal place right. In college I was really good at slippin' the stick but since I've completely lost that skill. I did have a calculator my senior year of college. Had to. Competition required it. $400 was a lot of money in '73, about a semester's tuition and I was making $2.25/hr.
But you can show the customer the model house. That's rather useful.
You're using Sketchup for something it wasn't designed to do.
Besides my schematic entry tool, Excel is my most important tool. I'm too cheap to buy it for home. There is a freeware (or used to be anyway) spreadsheet but I hated the UI and it was too hard to remember both.
When our mechanical engineers want to show me a heatsink my widget is going into, she uses a modeling tool to show me but crawling around inside it. The model is then sent out to make tools for castings. If it's low volume (10-20), I'll have them machined. Same model file.
No, I'm saying that some tools are obsolete, except for interest. Some think it's cool to make dovetails by hand. It's interesting but I have no interest in learning how. Time is short.
The instructor was probably and old man too. ;-)
Or if you grow with the job.
snipped-for-privacy@notreal.com on Sun, 28 Feb 2021 23:10:31 -0500 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
I got my Dad's and my Mom's slipsticks. Learned to use them one summer when I got the made idea to program the decay products of radioactive isotopes. All I needed was to convert the half-life to seconds ... easy with logs, but first I had to learn logs....
I even brought the Good One to a Comp Sci test, Dr White almost gave me extra credit for using it. Almost.
True. Which is why you need to learn to visualize the back side - or visualize how the 2-D drawings come together to make the 3-D object.
And how many are so dependent upon the technology that without it they're stuck? I mean it isn't like in my Dad's days. _We_ had Rocks.
And how many digital records are lost due to changes in standards, lost software?
I used Quicken until 2005. When the New Improved Version was such that nothing was preferable. So Nothing is what I used for the next several years. The bummer is that all my financial records are lock up in those Quicken files.
snipped-for-privacy@notreal.com on Sun, 28 Feb 2021 23:14:43 -0500 typed in rec.woodworking the following:
Open Office - Calc. I've been using it for years. Main issue is to remember that in Calc, the separator is a semi-colon, not a comma as in Excel.
Intuit (maker of TurboTax and Quicken, I think) plays "games" with it's customers. I don't care for that much...and I vote with my dollars (not many...) But as far as the technology, I could always port my records to "paper", if desired. It is handy to be able to look up a model number of this, that or the other thing---it speeds up shopping. Seems like you could find an old copy of Quicken somewhere. Just like I have an "old copy" of the installation file for the free version of SketchUp, which is in some ways less handicapped than the current version available.
It's still in the intro coursework in the local CC Drafting & Design Tech program -- the employers demand it of the graduates. Being unable to work "on the fly" is simply unacceptable; having the basics first is mandatory.
The graduate with familiarity and, depending on program specialization, varying levels of proficiency with multiple software applications, but they all get the "how to" on paper drawing and measurements first.
On 3/1/2021 8:47 AM, dpb wrote: ...
And, we know it is what the employers want because they sit on the program advisory boards and make both financial and technology contributions to programs that provide the training they're looking for in graduates.
It's no different in concept than the fact they also have to have coursework in basic language and mathematics skills besides just knowing some particular CAD program.
Even the carpentry and other trades must have that; employers look for/demand that they be able to communicate and do more than just drive a nail, they want somebody that will eventually be the framing crew chief, say. They can get casual labor off the street; if the guy/gal has a degree/certificate, they need to be well-versed to really hit the market.
--
I had the install files. But I forgot the password to my docs / accounts. Yeah, I could have printed them out, but ... didn't occur to me at the time.
I had to "start over" when my mobord died. Lot of "Install version X, when I get it all done and complete, then go online and update to version nine billion.
snipped-for-privacy@notreal.com wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:
Agreed. Showing the customer either the paper or computer model works out rather well. Last time I did something for a customer, I started with a paper sketch and showed him that first before spending an hour on the computer drawing his house.
I'm not so sure about that. The tools are there: Solid Groups/Components, Outer Shell. The only things I needed to do was change the reverse face color to something obvious for those times Sketchup doesn't quite understand what I want and download the STL plugin (created by the Sketchup team).
Puckdropper
The shortcuts are all different, colors, formatting, and equations/references, IIRC. It's a RPITA to be multilingual. Maybe after I retire I can forget Excel, finally!
Which separators? Import text? They can be changed during import with Excel.
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.