Avoiding raised grain with water based dye?

[Toller]

I have tried wetting the wood, letting it dry, and sanding; but the grain still comes up a bit when I use a water based dye. Presumably there is a better way to do it, or no one would use it.

Help!

Another related question... I am using the dye to imitate a tinted lacquer. Dye with an overcoat of gel-stain does pretty good; the dye hides the grain and the stain brings it up, so the two together are kinda neutral. (If that didn't work I was going to try a pore filler and then gel stain, but that seems like a lot of work.) But the dye by itself looks awful. When is dye alone used?

[Mike G]

Of course the question that now comes up is, what do you mean when you say you let it dry and sanded?

Wood is made up of strands of intertwined cells running length wise along the grain of the wood, think day old spaghetti left to dry in the pot . Well, mostly anyway.

Mill wood and you leave some of these strands shaved off short.

When wood is dampened the cells absorb water and swell. When it dries it shrinks back. However, these severed strands, with nothing attached to pull them back, remain standing and make the fuzz.

Now, if you actually SAND the wood you not only shave off this fuzz but you also sever new strands. The whole thing becomes a self perpetuating process. Think of it as a government program, the problem never gets fixed it just keeps on growing.

What you want to be doing is just ever so lightly scuffing or slicing off those nasty little fibers with as little impact as possible on the underlying wood.

Note, if you are not staining but are using a water based finish pre dampening isn't necessary. Just apply a wash coat of the finish and let it dry. The fuzz stands up nice and stiff and the dried finish makes it's harder to accidentally sever more strands in the underlying wood.

Good luck. Hopefully that will be the problem and solution.

[Bay Area Dave]

[Tom Kohlman]

...you have probably seen the product before (it's actually older than I am)...it's called "sanding sealer"...don't know why it works (you can ask the pros here) but it does on most things. I think it is a thinned version of poly that when sanded keeps the fibers down but still accepts color.

Good luck

[Bay Area Dave]

hmmm...while playing around with dyes and stains, I found it nigh impossible to change the color of oak with a water based stain, after first applying an oil modified pigment stain (the stain left the tightly grained portions relatively unstained, which is why I like to use dyes). why would poly (even a light coat) allow a water based dye to effectively color the wood? seems like if it seals the wood, dye wouldn't work. what am i missing?

dave

Tom Kohlman wrote:

[Mike G]

Actually sanding sealers are made with mineral soaps I.E. zinc sterate.. Their purpose is to make sanding the first coat easier by preventing corning and other such problems.

The down side is that the soaps can cause adhesion problems and, in general, commercial sanding sealers containing such sterates are best left on the shelf at the paint store.

Then of course what the action of sealing the surface will have when trying to apply the stain has to be considered.

[Tom Kohlman]

...was just a thought...don't remember which project Normy was working on that he used it...I used it about a million years ago on a pine desk and had no problems, but then again I was using oil base stain over the top and not a water based dye. Have never used dye now that I think about it since I never saw the need.

Maybe the solution is to let the grain rise and deal with it accordingly...I have more higher number grit sandpaper in my shop than lower...400g wet/dry gets a lot of use.

[Andrew Barss]

Toller wrote: : I have tried wetting the wood, letting it dry, and sanding; but the grain : still comes up a bit when I use a water based dye.

Try using a cabinet scraper, instead of sandpaper. This will shear off the raised fibers. Sanding will cut/grind them off, but cut new short fibers that may raise on the second application.

-- Andy Barss

[Jim Akins]

Use 000 steel wool or a scotch brite pad after raising the grain, sometimes more than 1 grain raising is required. Jim A.

[Wally Goffeney]

Wally Goffeney

[Mike G]

Accept after the last coat has dried.