Asked a commercial cabinet shop about their SawStop(s)

That would be trading down as Sawstop does not offer a sliding table.

Operators should not become more sloppy just as gun owners did not become more sloppy when the safety was added. A blade spinning at 100 mph and the fact that a blade that is not spinning will still cut you should be enough of a deterrent.

For whatever reason, Leon - the point is he won't be buying one.

You are citing logic (and I agree with you) but, I'm interested to know the reality. There are many *should nots* in this world but we can never depend on that. Here's one- People *should not* operate a motor vehicle while intoxicated.

Well perhaps in the future as the contractor versions come out or as other manufacturers follow Powermatic in starting to add more safety features the saw will come down in price.

IMHO until you actually loose a digit you may never agree with how it is brought to market. I was always careful and lost half of my thumb to my old Craftsman saw. As careful as I am I still had the accident after finishing the cut and after turning the saw off. My position is that in this particular case I think every one would benefit from this device because proper technique does not guarantee freedom from injury. Say a child sneaks into your shop and turns the saw on and the unthinkable happens. There are millions of possibilities.

I am kind of like a parent that becomes involved in the prevention of a disease after he looses a child to that disease. You really don't see the big picture until it is too late. The government got involved and required kids to be immunized before starting school and as a result many child hood diseases were almost wiped out. Unfortunately the government does not enforce this as strictly it has in the past and some of those diseases are on the rise. I am sure there are still some parents that wish the government had not gotten involved in immunizations also. Whether your view is pro or con IMHO this is one of the situations where government involvement would better serve the general public than many other situations it is involved in. I don't want the government involved any more than the next person but in this situation I can find it easier to swallow that pill.

Maybe, although your argument is less than compelling. (I don't think I would be trading down from my Ryobi, just because I would be giving up a sliding table.)

I agree it shouldn't. But it would be nice to see data to support or refute that (not that LV's experience, even over many years, would be statistically significant).

Exactly. You wanted to attach an opinion,

Further reinforcing the opinion that the technology is good in some applications, but should not be forced on those who don't feel the need.

So did I.

Well, I see the point you are trying to make, I think, however should we not try to improve because we know that we cannot protect against every senerio?

LOL, yeah, I forgot to include the brand saw he is using also.

Sorry Leon, but that is not correct. Having been employed with public health for 17+ years, I can assure you the enforcements are even stricter than before. However, your observation that there has been a rise in the incidents of childhood infectious disease is correct. If you look at the demographic breakdown, you'll see that the rise is occuring due to illegal migrants. The mexican, central and south american countries do not have the same level of immunization laws and required compliance as America.

| In a Political Science class I once had it was pointed out that | year after year there is a proven direct correlation between the | consumption of ice cream and the incidence of rape. Look at any | year and you will see that starting in January as the total | amount of ice cream per week or month increases, so do the | number of reported rapes. Some might be tempted to proclaim | that this is proof that the consumption of ice cream causes rape | and decide that we should outlaw ice cream. I suppose others | might conclude that rapists must consume vast quantities of ice | cream after doing their crime and thus police should stake out | Ben & Jerrys to look for rapists. | | | Others might be tempted to note that both ice cream | consumption and rape tend to increase and decrease as outside | temperatures vary. | | I believe Mark Twain noted that there are three kinds of | lies...lies, damned lies and statistics. | | Dave hall

Reminds me of the book "How To Lie With Statistics" by Darrell Huff. It covers a multitude of ways to mislead (lie) people. It's probably time to blow the dust off it and re-read, refresh and re-arm myself.

John Flatley

The rise in illegal migrants was what I was getting at. Sorry for the choice of words in that respect.

Ah, I understand now. :-)

It's amazing, I wonder what people did before illegal immigration came along to blame for all of society's woes...

Is there anything that can't be blamed on illegal immigration? I mean the illegal folks didn't elect the criminal inhabiting the white house or invade Iraq did they?

John E.

We didn't complain as much because we didn't pay as much in taxes to support so many other people, illegal or not. Nor did we educate people in 20 different languages. Or try to.

No need to go to Iraq to invade a country. All they have to do is walk across the border and invade this one.

todd

This isn't stuff made up to simply blame illegal immigrants, it is an unfortunate reality. In our health district alone, it was becoming an almost an overwhelming chase to try to track down the families of illegals to try and get the kids immunized and to get TB testing done. In LA County there were over 180 deaths last year due to measles; these outbreaks were primarily among the unimmunized kids of illegals.

| John Emmons wrote: | || It's amazing, I wonder what people did before illegal immigration || came along to blame for all of society's woes... | | This isn't stuff made up to simply blame illegal immigrants, it is | an unfortunate reality. In our health district alone, it was | becoming an almost an overwhelming chase to try to track down the | families of illegals to try and get the kids immunized and to get | TB testing done. In LA County there were over 180 deaths last year | due to measles; these outbreaks were primarily among the | unimmunized kids of illegals.

This isn't exactly a new scenario. I think I recall reading that immigrants brought the first cases of smallpox, cholera, and several varieties of VD to the Americas - leading to hundreds of thousands of deaths and the demise of at least one major culture.

-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA

SNIP

No, the "former" Cubans did (see election results - Florida)!

If you think Isreal's lobbying capacity and influence is pretty powerful - check out the Anti-Castro Cuban American influence. Wonder what they'll obsess on when Castro dies?

charlie b

My first "hard liquor" drink was a Cuba Libre - in Panama. At least "la revolucion" had one positive affect.

Not trying to start an arguement here, but how would a SawStop have helped you in the circumstances you describe? Or maybe you weren't trying to make SS' case with your accident. It wasn't clear to me which (nor was it in all the stuff I snipped).

I believe the Sawstop system stays active until the blade stops spinning.

:~) If the blade is still spinning after the saw is turned off the blade can still get you. Now that is pretty obvious but falls into one of the millions of ways an accident can happen when you are not cutting wood. When not cutting wood the average person is probably not as attentive as he should be, I was not. The SawStop would prevent this because it still works if the blade is turning after being turned off. I verified this feature soon after the SawStop was introduced.