Been in production use for 2 years in the small building I was at. I
was told the main factory had another 12 of them. Last summer they
sold all the Powermatics and Unisaws (10) at an auction.
They loved the saw, and it had made two saves for them in the last 2
years, both ended up with a tiny scar after a band-aid was applied.
The workman's compensation claims would have been HUGE.
Frank - we've made exactly the same decision here... replacing all of our
table saws with Sawstops... (14 at least, probably more...)
I hope none of them ever goes off - but I can almost guarantee at least one
will eventually. I can also tell you from personal experience that the fine
for at fault accidents (and this is determined by a trial) is 100K. That
does not include Workmans Comp, legal fees, or management time.
I can also add that all of our staff really like the saw too...
I don't find two "saves" to be a stretch at all...
Statistically - an invidual isn't likely to lose a digit, and makes
decisions accordingly. Statistically as a corporation, we're likely to have
an accident with the number of saws we have and the number of users - so we
make our decisions accordingly.
Frank Boettcher (in email@example.com) said:
| Good for you, Rob, and pardon my ignorance in the event you are a
| regular poster to this newsgroup, well known to all but me, but who
| is "we"?
Rob is the President of Lee Valley Tools Ltd, and generally lurks more
than he posts.
DeSoto, Iowa USA
Hi Frank -
I'm just a guy who doesn't like staff with with stitches.... :)
(As noted - Lee Valley Tools.)
We have 13 stores - each with a woodshop (for staff to use, and for building
displays, giving seminars etc...). Our manufacturing and R&D shops also have
saws... Should also note that we've stopped using dado sets too... nothing
wrong with them, there are just safer ways to achieve the same thing in our
environment (many users, multiple skill levels).
I personally have an Inca with a sliding table (and riving knife) - so won't
be buying a Sawstop.
Thanks for responding. It's good to have a substantiated claim by
someone who has made the decision to move in that direction, and I
hope you were not offended by my lack of recognition.
SawStop has been somewhat controversial and I've detected some trolls
in the past when this subject comes up. I suspect that if, the
quantity of table saw injuries that have sometimes been put on this
board without substantiation were true, someone from my organization
would have be in deposition twenty-four hours a day.
The controversy, in my opinion, is not in the area of advancing the
technology which is a good thing, but in getting the UL/CSA standards
boards or the goverment to mandate the technology and force it on
every manufacturer. I'm not in favor of that.
Based on the crowd they drew at IWF this year and years past, they
should be able to promote the technology without the mandate.
That's good info, Rob. I particularly note the fact that you will not
be buying one for personal use. Further reinforcing the opinion that
the technology is good in some applications, but should not be forced
on those who don't feel the need.
On a side note; I will be interested to know if your *fire rate*
exceeds that of historical accident rates. In other words will the
safety mechanism result in operators becoming more sloppy.
That would be trading down as Sawstop does not offer a sliding table.
Operators should not become more sloppy just as gun owners did not become
more sloppy when the safety was added. A blade spinning at 100 mph and the
fact that a blade that is not spinning will still cut you should be enough
of a deterrent.
For whatever reason, Leon - the point is he won't be buying one.
You are citing logic (and I agree with you) but, I'm interested to
know the reality. There are many *should nots* in this world but we
can never depend on that. Here's one- People *should not* operate a
motor vehicle while intoxicated.
In a shop where they are using uiniform materials in a repetitive
process that makes sense.
What happens the first time Harry Homeowner decides to chop up some
plastic or EEEK, aluminum?
Some of us do other thinghs beside fine cabinetry.
It also makes me wonder how many of these "saw accidents" were guys on
a metal framing job/trim job with "chopsaw" or just the guy you see on
a ladder with a skilsaw or cutting 2x4s on his knee. You see that if
you are around construction sites very much..
I think it was firstname.lastname@example.org who stated:
Uhhh . . . I suppose Harry puts the saw in "Bypass Mode" to
temporarily disable the brake and does his aluminum cutting, perhaps?
I don't think plastic cutting is an issue (I read the owner's manual
on the SawStop Web site). What is "EEEK"?
The SawStop doesn't have anything to do with either of those
situations, does it? Duh.
"What do *you* care what other people think?" --Arline Feynman
On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 00:00:47 -0400, email@example.com wrote:
For sure it is a valid question.
Statistics are very easily portrayed as one wishes.
For example -
The death rate among persons over 63 who quit smoking is higher than
those who continue to smoke. This is a true and valid statistic.
Thus, statistics can be very misleading. Most of the statistics we see
in our daily lives are worthless because we don't have associated
information. USA Today likes to print fancy looking charts and graphs
to go with a particular story. However, try to find the confidence
interval or standard deviation to go with the data. The charts are
nice, but unless we can see how the data was prepared and the
variable, it means very little.
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