Any Saw Stop Owners

Restrict him to cotton and sack cloth -- then he can do penance=20 simultaneously with his misdeeds.

--=20 Will R. Jewel Boxes and Wood Art

Oh, so you and your crew are not immortal or incapable or making a mistake either. There are some people that think that they are. LOL

So I strongly suspect that although you are having a problem with misfires, Joe is happy that he was using a SawStop Saw. Huh?

With all this to consider, how well do you think you would fare with all of the above circumstances and a regular saw?

Now aren't you and Mark just thrilled that you purchased that saw. The misfires were certainly an inconvenience but in the end the product just paid for it self.

Iron Age and some other safetey shoe makers make work shoes with conductive soles. You can use a special wax on the floors, and he'll be grounded effectively that way.

Let's not kid ourselves for one second. The underlying perception of the sawstop is to prevent accidental injury when flesh contacts the blade. SUPER IDEA in every sincerity. If I were to create a business plan on an idea like this, it would be to open a table saw to several new markets of users:

1. Those who use tablesaws regularly and want that extra insurance in case of a mistep.
2. Those who would never have purchased a cabinet saw, but would now feel protected and safe from harm (until they realize a saw stop can still throw wood back at them).
3. Those who want something different than anyone else (short term)

Right now, I think #3 above is the prevailing market. If you are implying that a regular saw isn't as safe, then you have missed my point. What I am saying is that if this new technology is to be effective, it must be invisible to any user until needed. When needed it MUST work right as intended every time, and forget about legal usage disclaimers. To put any kind of usage disclaimers goes against a large portion of what I would consider the long term target market.

Until it delivers perfectly against the perceived image, it is purely a novelty.

Do you also avoid wearing seat belts, since they do not prevent death or serious injury in every accident? How about airbags, which have been known to CAUSE injuries. No, I don't think that perfection is the right standard for removing from the novelty category.

Now whether it is sufficiently effective, I don't know; I'm just quibbling with the idea that perfection should be the standard.

I think it is unrealistic to expect any safety device to *prevent* accidents. Airbags, brakes, fire extinguishers--they all fail or go off prematurely under certain conditions.

A more realistic view is that the purpose of the sawstop is to reduce the likelihood/severity of accidental injury when flesh contacts the blade.

Viewed in this light, I think it's a great idea.

That said, I don't think it should be mandatory, and I don't think it's worth the current premium for myself as a hobbyist.

Chris

Maybe the bloat is drooling all over your equipment!

If the sawstop people had just marketed their product as a safety device, I might have agreed that this is a good analogy. After all, any automaker can add a seat belt to their cars. However, their tactic was to try to get the government to _force_ saws to be sold with their exclusively patented device.

Contrast this to the mentality of automakers like Mercedes and Saab - Mercedes invented "crumple zones". It's a great safety improvement. They also specifically decided not to patent it, and to share the technology, so other makers could use this safety system. Similarly, Saab has come up with dozens of innovations which they likewise have decided not to be exclusive on.

The approach of "force everyone to buy a product that they can only get from us" is, I think, the biggest problem. The quality control and design problems are secondary.

Computer hard drives. MTBF 500,000 hours.

Actually, while I am AGAINST gov't mandates in this instance, remember that both seatbelts and airbags appeared as voluntary items only very briefly before they were mandated (and are airbags mandated, or just effectively so from the "passive restraint" regs?). And those for mandated sawstop technology will correctly point out that airbags were affordable only on Mercedes-class cars before mandates, but now add not that much cost to a $10,000 car.

Where the analogy breaks down in my opinion is the inability to apply this technology to very inexpensive saws. How do you add this to a $150 bench-top "table saw"?

If you mean "several decades" as "very briefly", then yes.

Automatic front seatbelts, _or_ airbags, became mandated in 1988 or so. Airbags suck much less than automatic front seatbelts - the ones mounted to the doors were particularly useless, since if the doors popped open, just when you needed the seatbelt to keep you in the car, it wasn't there.

Well, if they get the technology solid, then let's talk. I'm not holding my breath.

You don't. But that's not in their business model, so they don't care.

I think it is. It has its acute problem right now but that is to be expected. So far the problem is a nusence.

When needed

I bet Joe would beg to differ with you since the saw just saved one of his employees thumbs by working as advertised. If the safety feature never works correctly to prevent an injury again Joe is ahead of the game.

Same way you do it with the expensive saw, only cheaper. Look around you at anything electronic, many appliances, etc. They are much cheaper now that the were some years ago. My first bedroom size 6000 Btu AC was over $150 40 years ago. Today I can buy one for $99. Standard features in an economy car today are better than luxury cars of the past.

Improved design, higher volume to justify new tooling and the price will come down quite a bit in a few years.

Having a tire blowout or getting wiped out by some airhead chatting on a cell phone while piloting her SUV 20 MPH over the speed limit is not in the same category as a usually self-inflicted wound at a table saw. While woodworking YOU are in charge of what you are doing. On the open road you are at the mercy of others, as well as a mechanical failure. I don't know of many (if ANY) finger loses due SOLELY to mechanical failure of a table saw. If I'm wrong, enlighten me. I'll stick with my Unisaw for now...

Dave

So how come one of my hard drives went kaput within 6 years, from intermittent use? :)

Dave

You are on the wrong side of the "Mean" time. Some other user has a hard drive that will last 63 years to offset your loss.