Any 240v woodworking equipment need a neutral?

[Doug Miller]

Chill out, Swingman. This may be a first -- me *defending* Toller's point of view on an electrical issue -- but he's on perfectly solid ground here, and "resrfglc" is out to lunch.

[Toller]

Cite a code section. If my county had inspectors, which they don't, what would I ask? "Uh, I have a circuit that doesn't need a neutral; in fact, I don't even have anything to attach it to. Do I need a neutral?" I presume they would tell me that if I don't need a neutral, I don't need a neutral.

[Doug Miller]

Ummmmm.... the "grounded" conductor and the "neutral" conductor are the same thing.

[Toller]

If you don't know, why answer? And, why answer twice?

[Art Greenberg]

Please cite NEC where it says neutral is required for 220/240V devices.

[Toller]

I give up, what is a mechanical ground, as opposed to an electrical ground? And, since 240v machines only have three wires, what do you do with the extra wire in the supply?

[Doug Miller]

OK, fine -- show us where the Code requires a neutral conductor on a 240V load.

Right, and wiring a 240V motor with three wires (two ungrounded conductors, one groundING conductor, and NO groundED conductor) is the approved manner of doing so.

Don't think so? Think about this -- if you supply that groundED (neutral, white) wire, what do you propose connecting it to?? There are only three connections on a 240V motor: motor winding A, motor winding B, equipment ground. Where does that neutral wire go?

No current will flow in that wire, connected or not. It's not needed electrically, and it's not required by the NEC either. You think it is? Cite the article of the Code that says so.

[Robatoy]

Well, yeah... always joint everything. It is bad not to joint.

I'm still trying to figure out if I want a left tilt or a right tilt saw.

r

[Toller]

No, it is only a neutral with our 240v system, but that is just a name. But that is pretty much my point; 3 wires - hot, grounded/neutral, grounding.

[Robatoy]

Wonder what the 3rd wire on a 220 outlet on a generator does? It isn't a 'ground' until you hammer in several feet of copper rod into the ground beside the generator..or am I just stirring shit?

r

[Toller]

Hey, you got something completely wrong a couple months ago, and I didn't say a word.

[Swingman]

Don't believe it ... a neutral is NOT required for the 220/240 equipment circuit that you are originally asking about.

However, do be VERY careful about colors ... when what is normally the neutral, (white) wire in the 10/2 w/G you mentioned, is used as one of the two current carrying wires in a 220/240 circuit, it should be taped/marked on BOTH ends, usually with black tape, to clearly indicate that is carrying current and is NOT a "neutral".

This is important, _is_ a violation of code if not done ... and may be a source of the confusion.

[Swingman]

Keep in mind that if you have a left tilt saw, you need a right tilt jointer to keep things complementary.

[Robatoy]

Nope.. that's not it. wire 1 is phase 1 at 120 to ground/neutral wire 2 is phase 2 at 120 to groun/neutral. Potential between wire one and 2 is 240, No ground required, but highly recommended... and downright silly not to have a ground. (Wire # 3, in a 10/2 a copper uninsulated wire aka ground. In a 10/3 there are 4 wires.

[Robatoy]

Agreed....IF you reverse the groundwire. When dealing with counter-rotating wooddorking machines, you don't have to give it any stick when becoming airborne.

[Toller]

That is true here, but this particular thread is about the rest of the world. I thought their hots were 240v, but I could be wrong.

[Swingman]

Damn ... there's a lot of things a proper dorker needs to keep in mind when multi-dorking.

[Doug Miller]

It's the neutral, as in tapped from the center of the transformer secondary, same as the supply from the utility company. It's there so that you can run

240 *and* 120 loads.

Ground is the generator frame.

[Doug Miller]

Is that still true in Australia?

[Swingman]

Who said that??