Advice Wanted On This Trim Project

[-MIKE-]

I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a screwdriver or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new, treated

2x12. (Client wants cheapest option.)

What I need help with is figuring out how to transfer that arch to the new 2x12. This isn't an arch that was drawn with a radius or trammels. If this was a perfectly cut arch, I could just determine the radius by bisecting the chords and extending perpendicular lines to find the radius.

If you look closely, you will see that it's not even and the arch "flattens out" near both ends. So I believe I'm left with trying to transfer the exact line of the bottom of the soldier course of bricks to the new 2x12.

Remember, the existing 2x12 will not come out in one piece or even several pieces which could be reassembled to use to trace the "arch" onto the new board. It's pretty much, mulch, held together with paint.

Any ideas?

[FrozenNorth]

Large long roll of paper, and tape, make a pattern then proceed with the demolition?

[dpb]

On 12-Oct-17 4:59 PM, -MIKE- wrote: ...

...

Roughly FN's idea but use more solid material for your pattern than paper...anything will do from masonite to ply to even cardboard just need something stiff-enough can fit and scribe from it reliably.

Start since you still have the lower edge intact by measuring the vertical height every few inches so can fit a fair curve, then cut out the pattern a little proud and fit in place. Once you've got the pattern made, then you're good to go...

[Ed Pawlowski]

I would do that as first step but before cutting the wood, I'd transfer it to cardboard or hardboard to be sure of the fit.

I'm impressed that the builder made the arch like that. So many buildings are just plain boxes.

[-MIKE-]

Yes and no. Adding an arch, yes. Adding a make-shift arch with not continuous, measurable curve, no.

[John Grossbohlin]

I need to replace the white board above this garage door. The 2x12 is rotted out pretty bad. It will just fall out when poked with a screwdriver or putty knife, so I'm going to replace with a new, treated

2x12. (Client wants cheapest option.)

..

Any ideas?

To start I would tack the new 2x12 (or 1x12 if it turns out to be that) up on the side jambs even with the bottom edge of the existing arch board, or level, which ever seems better based on the field conditions. Then I'd scribe the curve onto the new board by following the existing curve. This could be done with a large pencil compass. Alternatively a board that is as long as the distance from the bottom of the curved board to the maximum height of the curve and a pencil could be substituted. In either case make sure the scriber is plumb as you move across the length of the board. Any roughness in the scribed line can be smoothed out during and after cutting the board... a slight undercut would help with the fitting.

Another consideration might be to get some 1x12 pvc trim (or glue up narrower boards). If needed shim it out with with the scrapes from cutting the curve. It would hold up better than wood.

[Ed Pawlowski]

It look close to just a curve near the top and straight line to the ends. You can always cut it straight for the most part and use a boatload of caulk. Just be sure to get paid before the customer get within 20 feet of it.

[-MIKE-]

Great advice. Thanks. PVC is a fortune around here, I don't see the client going for it.

[dpb]

...

Double- and triple-check -- the brick may be overlaid veneer in front of the frieze board so you don't have to scribe it at all...

[-MIKE-]

There bricks and board are on the same plane. What's interesting is that the board in between the lintel and the bricks. I'm not a mason, but I always thought the lintel was to support a course of bricks above wood. Either way, the wood board is cut on that curve, not behind the bricks.

[Markem]

Tape paper to the bricks and tranfer by rubbing powder line chalk? Get the curve from the bricks.

[clare]

I'd set the trim board back a bit behind the brick line and run a drip mold on it and on the top of the door frame, and prime and paint all the edges before installing. It's not weight bearing? I'd really think about cedar 1X instead of PT - likely last a lot longer.

[clare]

Looking at the picture the bricks and the board look to be pretty well flush, - so it WILL need to be scribed to fit

[DerbyDad03]

That concerns me a bit. It sounds like the lintel is acting as a header and the curved board is (was) acting as the lintel for the bricks. Granted, the arch of the brick itself, although it's not much, probably helps suppor t the brick *somewhat* but not that much.

Is there a gap between the rotted wood and the brick or is the brick restin g on the wood? If the wood is supposed to be supporting the brick above, you better get it right and get it right fast.

[Sonny]

I think the rotted board is not supporting the bricks, if those bricks are full size bricks. There's probably some metal support (I-beam?) behind the rotted board, supporting the brick wall (and maybe partially the arch).

To me, the (upright) brick arch is simply decoration, probably not full bri cks. Its arc is not supporting the brick wall and that should be obvious by the fact that the bricks adjacent to the keystone have been cut, inappro priately, defeating the purpose of a true keystone function. If the rotte d board was for support, then likely the bricks and mortar, above, would ha ve cracks, somewhere. The rotted board, I suspect, is simply a space fille r.

Large/long pieces of cardboard would be my choice for pattern making. Mig ht only need to scribe half the span, i.e., mirror image halves. If it's d iscovered that the board isn't for support, then you wouldn't need to cut a full length board for replacement. Two boards connected by a lap joint wo uld be easier to 1) dry fit and 2) for final installment for a good tight f it at the pointy ends. Caulk first, before permanently jamming the boards /"pointies" in.

Sonny

[Scott Lurndal]

Take a photo, enlarge it, then trace the arch.

[ScottWW]

It appears as though the 'mason' used a springy board to scribe/cut the field bricks, then again to support the arch bricks. This shortcut explains the straight ends. The tightest curvature at the apex is the result of the flexibility of the springy board and the amount of pressure applied from below.

I think the best way to match the arch will be to scribe vertically with a large compass as suggested by other contributors. Scott in Dunedin

[-MIKE-]

That was my thought as well for the same reasons you described.

That's leading the field in my head right now.

[-MIKE-]

There's no way that board is supporting anything except the coat of paint lying on it. And I have have that the wrong way around. :-)

I can't mirror it because the two sides don't match. (You can see it better with the naked eye on site.) I'd prefer not to use two sections. Even if I glue and sand, I'm sure that joint would open up some time next summer.

If I'm lucky, maybe the inside, behind this, is open and I can get up in there and trace the opening from the back. Doubt it, but who knows. I just hope there's sufficient nailing surface behind it.

[John McGaw]

I'd think that scribing would be a great idea. It needs to be carefully done, keeping the compass (or whatever equivalent is being used) perfectly vertical all the time. I've done it using a stick with a pencil stub taped to it -- not the best solution but I didn't have a proper compass at the time.

From looking at that picture I'd be more concerned about the structural integrity of the whole opening. I hope that the existing wood isn't actually supporting those bricks even slightly -- the arch isn't deep enough to be in any way self-supporting.