Wireless mics and small PA for speaker meetings

[John Stumbles]

Our local Skeptics in the Pub[1] has started putting on meetings with speakers (the human variety) in a bar. We could do with a bit of amplification so people at the back of the room (where there's also a certain amount of noise intruding from the rest of the pub) can hear properly. We could really do with a headset type of microphone (the sort you see high-powered Merkin 'motivational speakers' using :-)) for the speaker and a hand-held for the person doing the introductions and for taking questions from the audience; preferably both wireless. And speakers (audio type), obviously, and electronics to connect up.

For speakers 3 or 4 smallish ones which could be suspended from a ceiling beam or pillar would probably be better than one or two larger floor- standing units (or requiring large tripods).

For budget, around the £100 mark would be easily do-able; more would require a bit of scrounging and saving but possible.

Any suggestions for type, make, model & suppliers of kit?

[1]

[MuddyMike]

Sorry but £100 won't even buy one decent radio mike.

Mike

[John Williamson]

Speak to your local Maplin store about their Prosound range, but you're going to be over your budget for two usable radio mics even without a PA system.

Add three hundred or so, and you'll get a very usable, portable system from either Maplin or one of the music instrument sheds.

The small system I use for similar work has two radio mics that cost about a hundred each, a small mixer, which cost fifty quid or so, and a pair of Wharfedale Active Diamond powered speakers which cost about a hundred quid each. Add fifty quid or so for cables, and you're about there. The speakers are small enough to sit on shelves or wall brackets, but I use stands for mobile work.

You *could* try going to a local car boot sale or market and buying some cheap radio mics, but they will be (a) illegal, and (b) low quality. Then use a small, cheap mixer and a second hand 50 Watt per channel or so stereo amp, and a few speakers dotted round in boxes. That would just get within your budget, but you'd then decide to go out and buy some real gear when you heard the results. And multiple speakers dotted round the room will need delays in the feed to the back ones, or the sound there will be 'orrible.

Good sound isn't cheap when you need volume, and you need to allow at least a watt of RMS power per person as a starting point.

[Tabby]

I'd get chucked out domestic speakers and amps for nothing, then you can spend the money on the mic or mics. If one of the mics is wired, so much the better, you've got more budget for a decent wireless one.

NT

[Dave Plowman (News)]

You might just about get 1 cheap radio mic for that. The ones I use are more like 2000 quid each.

Lots of small speakers will give much better coverage than one or two large ones for speech, but then you're into using 100 volt line or lots of amps.

If you're going to DIY the installation and buy carefully - maybe some secondhand - you might get away with about 1000 quid.

[Dave Liquorice]

Don't think Mr Stumbles needs "volume" just a bit of reinforcement, though we don't know what "(where there's also a certain amount of noise intruding from the rest of the pub)" actually means. Is that a quiet lounge bar, a racus public or a six piece heavy metal band going flat out?

I agree that =A3100 is not suffcient budget for two radio mics, mixer/amp, speakers and wiring. Looking in the lates CPC flyers I see all manner of cheapish kit, =A350 for mixer/amp, speakers at =A315, etc but what this stuff actually sounds like is another matter. A trip to Maplin where you can hopefully audition the stuff is not a bad idea. Spend the money on the radio mics (in Ch70 "license free") and speakers, these days virtually any mixer/amp of suitable power will sound fine.

[Dave Liquorice]

Or more... I was going to suggest the Sennheiser G3 range but even those come it at around =A3500/channel. How much are the G2's? CPC have Audio Technica UHF diversity for =A3169 + VAT. But one assumes the pub is VAT registered so can get that back.

Yes several well placed smaller speakers at lower level much better than just one or two blasting out from the front. With devious series/parallel wiring you don't have to go to 100v line. Most amps these days will drive 4 ohms without trouble but with reduced power capabilty. 4 ohms is two 8 ohm speakers in parallel, a stereo amp gives four speakers... Should be enough for the average pub lounge bar.

[dennis]

Is there a music system already there so you can save on speakers and amps?

If so you might get a useable system from maplin but ~£200 would be better for the mics.

If you need speakers and amps you really need to look for second hand/seconds or you need another £200+.

I think I still have an old rotel (iirc) stereo receiver (about 50W RMS IIRC) in the attic that you can have, but its a bit heavy to post and I haven't powered it up for >15 years.

[RobertL]

What about a few mobile sound-screen panels? This kind of thing:

would only attenuate the higher frequencies but that is probably all you need to stop speech being masked.

Robert

[Owain]

Ditch wireless mikes - you can't afford them. And audience participartion mikes will feedback. Be aware the regulations/ frequencies for wireless mikes are changing - there will be a lot of s/ hand illegal ones floating about.

Spend money on decent, cardioid moving-coil mikes with low handling noise and a table or floor stand with gooseneck.

PA amps are quite cheap on ebay.

can be had cheap on ebay if you bide your time, eg

[cynic]

I bought brand new an el-cheapo k&k radio mic and adastra mains/12v powered amp with a couple of TOA speakers from ebay a couple of years ago for just under =A3100. The user has to remain within 20 feet or so of the amp but indoors that should not be a problem. It worked fine for small horse shows. Why would you need hi-fi reproduction for what you describe?

[chrisj.doran]

That was my feeling -- AIUI it's only speech. But there are many people who will disagree.

There's no problem in getting a couple of radio mikes, or a dual- channel box, on eBay for well under =A3100 if you keep an eye open and wait for a glut.

As Owain said, be aware that the UHF channels are about to change and a lot of stuff will become illegal. But the earlier VHF channels will remain and equipment for these is still available and prefectly adequate.

Make sure you get a diversity receiver (2 aerials) or you'll get dead spots (or at any rate more dead spots than with diversity). IME Murphy guarantees that the (human) speaker will insist that the only possible place in the room he can speak from is in one of them.

Chris

[John Williamson]

I meant enough volume to overcome the general noise made by a large number of people coughing and fidgeting, with enough reserve to overcome a public bar in full shout next door if needed, but not necessarily enough to blow their ears off. 2 x 50 watt RMS channels seems a good, cheap starting point for a decent size room full of people. Though, to get that off the Maplin gear, it'll be saying 250 Watts on the box.

If you want dancing volume, then we both know that's a different kettle of fish. I've had a fifty watt amp completely drowned out by a couple of dozen excited kids before now.

[Tabby]

If you go with 2 stereo amps off freecycle, you get a few advantages over one:

- if part of the system fails, the system continues working

- if part fails, you're not under severe time pressure to get a replacement, and can ask on freecycle etc

- you get twice the max power output availability

- you get full control over the volume of each speaker

NT

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I was on the lookout on FreeCycle for a half decent stereo for a charity. All they had was a boom box, and they used music etc for meditation/relaxation. Got a pair of speakers (KEF) quite quickly, donated a CD player myself, but had to wait 6 months for an amp. Eventually got a broken Cyrus 1 which I repaired.

Loads of cheap music centres and TVs. Record decks and MiniDiscs. Good amps, not.

[geoff]

In message , John Stumbles writes

Voice projection dear boy

OK, if you must ...

[Tabby]

depends where you are, it varies a lot. There are of course other ways to get free kit too, like put a request in the paper, or ask the regular attendees if they've got someting gathering dust. You sure don't need audiophile kit for speech.

NT

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I might debate that - but in any case all recent amps are made for general purpose use. Many years ago you might have saved a bit on the output transformer on a valve amp by downgrading the spec. Not really relevant with solid state.

[Geo]

As everyone else is saying that you cannot afford "real" radio microphone(s), may I (somewhat timidly) suggest that you might be able to hack together a laptop with bluetooth USB dongle, cheap PC speakers and a bluetooth headset.

CPC have this microphone thing for a PS3 - Order Code: CS20336 - don't know if it works with anything else.

An alternative to the laptop /might/ be the Belkin Bluetooth music receiver Order Code:CS19528

[John Stumbles]

I know but you're in broadcast Dave!

What about something like this:

it (a) going to fall apart as soon as we look at it (b) going to sound like a British Rail platform tannoy (c) ...er, that's it

(Why don't they do them with one lavalier and one stick mic?!)