Where do smart meters get their power from?

These may be naive questions but I can't find answers anywhere. The context is our energy supplier may well ask us to install a smart meter soon so I'd like to understand how they work in practice.

I assume that they need some device both to replace or somehow connect to both the existing gas and electricity meters (as well as another remote unit to show the consumption). But where do these devices get their power from? For the electricity meter that's no big problem: I assume the device, whatever it is, will only use a watt or to to communicate to the home monitor and to the power company, so that a simple tap of the mains will suffice, after all that's how the existing meter works. But does the power that they use come out of what the consumer pays for?

But what about the smart gas meter? The existing one works on gas pressure, I assume. There's no electrical supply anywhere near our current gas meter - which may well be a common situation. Are these smart devices also gas-powered in some way or simply battery-powered? If so who is responsible for noticing when the battery runs down, and then buying a replacement and fitting it? I hope it's the power company, but if they have to make an urgent visit every year or so to change a battery that is hardly going to save them much compared to reading the existing meter at predictable intervals. If it's the consumer's responsibility and you somehow don't replace the battery does anyone notice or care? And does one's gas consumption get lost during the period of battery outage? Suppose you go away on holiday and the battery runs down just after you left, whose fault is that?

These are all simple obvious questions, but I don't seem to have been able to find answers. But I assume someone here already has a smart meter so will know the answers to at least some of them.

Reply to
Clive Page
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Somebody will be along in a minute who knows, but I assume there's a battery in the smart meter, and it gets changed by the gas company. I assume it reports the level of charge to the gas company, so they know when to change it.

They could build a generator in, powered by the gas flow, I suppose?

Free gas if the battery runs out or the meter stops working? Nah, they'll estimate.

Reply to
GB

no, it comes from the unmetered side.

They have a 10 year D-Cell to talk to the smart electricity meter, they only send readings every 30 minutes.

Reply to
Andy Burns

They come with a charger which plugs into a mains socket. The will work for a while until the battery discharges. Very similar in that way to a mobile phone. To my mind their big weakness is that they have a p*ss poor range, so as my electric meter is at the far end of the house it will not work properly in my lounge. A frustrating waste of space.

Reply to
Broadback

You seem to be talking about the in-house display (mine has no battery) not the meters themselves, that is of course powered by customer paid electricity, but there is no compulsion for you to leave it plugged in (though if you do unplug it, bear in mind it can take several minutes to send updated meter readings to the IHD).

Reply to
Andy Burns

Clive Page presented the following explanation :

Gas meter runs on a ten year battery and reports to the electric meter. Electric meter then reports to utility company, both readings.

Reply to
Harry Bloomfield, Esq.

I think most people misunderstand the way they work - including the supply companies!

As I understand it, it is battery powered half hourly readings from the gas meter to the smart-enabled electricity meter, and then that handles the communication of both readings to the supply company fundamentally via a sim card arrangement. It also locally broadcasts the live electricity usage data securely which can be read by an in house display paired with the meter by the engineer when they visit.

I'd recently been having issues with the gas readings showing up on my suppliers online account, but the electricity not reading at all, despite the fact that I could see it on the IHD.

The customer service operator advised me to power off the router for my home broadband, and switch off the IHD. For some reason believing a) that wifi was involved and b) that the IHD was somehow responsible for sending the data to the supplier. Unless I've missed something about data channel pollution etc, that sounded like bollocks to me.

Reply to
larkim

Should have asked for it in writing and forwarded the bollocks to ofgem

Reply to
Andy Burns

There's at least one other "Smart Meter" - and that's one used for the water supply. We recently had a water main go in the road, and I was chatting to a guy from the water company about the meters here. He said they were read remotely during drive-by. They were powered by a small generator which turned when the water flowed through them, as well as it turning the figures on the dial.

What is interesting is something actually useful: "The new AMR meters also have an inbuilt alarm system which will activate silently if water runs continuously through the meter over a 24-hour period

This means that when we drive by to read your meter, the alarm will be detected by us and we will investigate to see if there is a leak. This helps us all save even more water, energy and money."

Considering that most leaks are "silent", that could be of interest - even if it takes 6 months to actually notice when the next meter reading is taken!

Reply to
Jeff Layman

Our water meter has a wireless module ("Everblu Cyble"). Their data sheet says "battery - lithium, 15 years / 10 years in fixed network mode"

Reply to
Reentrant

There's no way anyone in their right mind would allow the energy company access to their Wi-Fi code. They could look at your holiday snaps if they weren't specifically secured. (You can usually share drives between computers on the same Wi-Fi network and it would be hard to know you hadn't by mistake.)

Reply to
Max Demian

The installer of my smart meter said it contacted the room display by infra-red. When I explained that IR doesn't go though brick walls he clearly thought I was some sort of nutter*.

*I know I am, but not for that reason.

Bill

Reply to
Bill Wright

Yes that's true. Yorkshire Water rang up to tell me I had a leak. The kids had left the water running in the hen run.

Bill

Reply to
Bill Wright

Oh, I see, I have at long last found somebody in EDF Energy who knows about the speech enabled remote unit. I have not asked the question about power, but presumably its either a thing like a charging cradle for a phone or just dry cells and only communicates when you are pressing buttons. Brian

Reply to
Brian Gaff (Sofa)

What are you referring to the gas meter or the remote unit. I'd imagine the remote unit will be pretty low power as when everyone gets them some band is going to be rather busy!

Brian

Reply to
Brian Gaff (Sofa)

Having said all that though, is it not strange in this day and age that the first advice if tech is not working right is to turn it off then on again. Mark my words, it will be even worse when we all start using Quantum computers! :-) Brian

Reply to
Brian Gaff (Sofa)

You should have sold him some pictures of the Invisible man. Brian

Reply to
Brian Gaff (Sofa)

In message <qq4m0m$bdk$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me, "Brian Gaff (Sofa)" snipped-for-privacy@blueyonder.co.uk> writes

Quite! I have used this one before.... we were sat at the end of the runway for a flight home from Madeira. Nothing much happened and then the captain announced we were returning to the apron. Back to the end of the runway and a normal take off. When the seat belt lights went to off the captain explained there had been a warning light on his display. Apparently turning the system off and back on had fixed it so we took off!

Reply to
Tim Lamb

The IHD uses Zigbee to communicate with the meter. Zigbee is 2.4GHz, so it is possible to be interfered with by wifi (or Bluetooth, microwave ovens, etc).

It sounds like it's a simple diagnostic tool to rule out a potential source of 2.4GHz interference (not very effective, unless turning off all the neighbours' routers too).

The IHD doesn't send data to the supplier, but it's possible they want the IHD working so they can get you to read things off the display.

Theo

Reply to
Theo

I was talking about the actual meters, not the inhouse display (or speech) unit, that would be powered on your shilling.

Reply to
Andy Burns

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