Where do smart meters get their power from?

These may be naive questions but I can't find answers anywhere. The context is our energy supplier may well ask us to install a smart meter soon so I'd like to understand how they work in practice.
I assume that they need some device both to replace or somehow connect to both the existing gas and electricity meters (as well as another remote unit to show the consumption). But where do these devices get their power from? For the electricity meter that's no big problem: I assume the device, whatever it is, will only use a watt or to to communicate to the home monitor and to the power company, so that a simple tap of the mains will suffice, after all that's how the existing meter works. But does the power that they use come out of what the consumer pays for?
But what about the smart gas meter? The existing one works on gas pressure, I assume. There's no electrical supply anywhere near our current gas meter - which may well be a common situation. Are these smart devices also gas-powered in some way or simply battery-powered? If so who is responsible for noticing when the battery runs down, and then buying a replacement and fitting it? I hope it's the power company, but if they have to make an urgent visit every year or so to change a battery that is hardly going to save them much compared to reading the existing meter at predictable intervals. If it's the consumer's responsibility and you somehow don't replace the battery does anyone notice or care? And does one's gas consumption get lost during the period of battery outage? Suppose you go away on holiday and the battery runs down just after you left, whose fault is that?
These are all simple obvious questions, but I don't seem to have been able to find answers. But I assume someone here already has a smart meter so will know the answers to at least some of them.
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Clive Page

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Somebody will be along in a minute who knows, but I assume there's a battery in the smart meter, and it gets changed by the gas company. I assume it reports the level of charge to the gas company, so they know when to change it.
They could build a generator in, powered by the gas flow, I suppose?
Free gas if the battery runs out or the meter stops working? Nah, they'll estimate.
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Clive Page wrote:

no, it comes from the unmetered side.

They have a 10 year D-Cell to talk to the smart electricity meter, they only send readings every 30 minutes.
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On 08/11/2019 15:23, Andy Burns wrote:

They come with a charger which plugs into a mains socket. The will work for a while until the battery discharges. Very similar in that way to a mobile phone. To my mind their big weakness is that they have a p*ss poor range, so as my electric meter is at the far end of the house it will not work properly in my lounge. A frustrating waste of space.
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Broadback wrote:

You seem to be talking about the in-house display (mine has no battery) not the meters themselves, that is of course powered by customer paid electricity, but there is no compulsion for you to leave it plugged in (though if you do unplug it, bear in mind it can take several minutes to send updated meter readings to the IHD).
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On Friday, 8 November 2019 16:48:39 UTC, Andy Burns wrote:

e it

I think most people misunderstand the way they work - including the supply companies!
As I understand it, it is battery powered half hourly readings from the gas meter to the smart-enabled electricity meter, and then that handles the communication of both readings to the supply company fundamentally via a sim card arrangement. It also locally broadcasts the live electricity usage data securely which can be read by an in house display paired with th e meter by the engineer when they visit.
I'd recently been having issues with the gas readings showing up on my suppliers online account, but the electricity not reading at all, despite the fact that I could see it on the IHD.
The customer service operator advised me to power off the router for my home broadband, and switch off the IHD. For some reason believing a) that wifi was involved and b) that the IHD was somehow responsible for sending the data to the supplier. Unless I've missed something about data channel pollution etc, that sounded like bollocks to me.
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larkim wrote:

Should have asked for it in writing and forwarded the bollocks to ofgem
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On 08/11/2019 17:06, Andy Burns wrote:

The installer of my smart meter said it contacted the room display by infra-red. When I explained that IR doesn't go though brick walls he clearly thought I was some sort of nutter*.
*I know I am, but not for that reason.
Bill
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You should have sold him some pictures of the Invisible man. Brian
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Having said all that though, is it not strange in this day and age that the first advice if tech is not working right is to turn it off then on again. Mark my words, it will be even worse when we all start using Quantum computers! :-) Brian
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Quite! I have used this one before.... we were sat at the end of the runway for a flight home from Madeira. Nothing much happened and then the captain announced we were returning to the apron. Back to the end of the runway and a normal take off. When the seat belt lights went to off the captain explained there had been a warning light on his display. Apparently turning the system off and back on had fixed it so we took off!
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Tim Lamb

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On 08/11/2019 21:51, Tim Lamb wrote:

We were waiting for pushback but the time came and went. Eventually we were told not to be concerned but the lights would shortly go off for a while as the aircraft was being rebooted!
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F



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F wrote:

787 dreamliners used to require a regular reboot to prevent them losing all electrical power after 2^31 centiseconds.
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On 08/11/2019 16:59, larkim wrote:

There's no way anyone in their right mind would allow the energy company access to their Wi-Fi code. They could look at your holiday snaps if they weren't specifically secured. (You can usually share drives between computers on the same Wi-Fi network and it would be hard to know you hadn't by mistake.)
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Max Demian

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The IHD uses Zigbee to communicate with the meter. Zigbee is 2.4GHz, so it is possible to be interfered with by wifi (or Bluetooth, microwave ovens, etc).
It sounds like it's a simple diagnostic tool to rule out a potential source of 2.4GHz interference (not very effective, unless turning off all the neighbours' routers too).
The IHD doesn't send data to the supplier, but it's possible they want the IHD working so they can get you to read things off the display.
Theo
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On 08/11/2019 22:01, Theo wrote:

Academic here since the mains meter is right in the core of the house and there is no mobile signal to be had there for love nor money.

Indeed it may make more sense to leave all your usual kit on so that it doesn't choose the newly vacated band where your normal Wifi channel is.
The worst offender for blocking mobile phone signals I have come across was actually a handset charger for a BT phone. This seemed so unlikely a cause of bad signal that it came as a complete surprise when the thing was finally thrown out that mobile signal magically improved.

One problem I have encountered with pairing the Owl things with their sender is that they can under some circumstances latch onto any nearby Owl not necessarily the one you actually want for your own premises.
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Martin Brown
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Martin Brown wrote:

Are you oop north? there's a dedicated 400MHz network covering DNO areas 15-18 & 23
<
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_network_operator#/media/File:Distribution_Network_Operators.PNG

elsewhere, mesh networking to neighbouring meters with better mobile signal is an option.
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On 12/11/2019 10:40, Andy Burns wrote:

Zone 15 but I suspect topography plays a big part as well.
There is another village in a valley nearby with zero signal. Phones have to be on a windowsill facing the right way to get anything here. Not great for battery life...
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Martin Brown
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Leave them plugged in.
On the assumption that the user has an internet connection, you can use Vodaphone's SureSignal if you're on Vodaphone or the equivalent from another network provider. That how I use my phone here - and we're only 24 miles from Charing Cross!
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from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
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After serious thinking larkim wrote :

Correct, except the gas meter updates the electric meter more frequently than that. Judging by the indoor displays gas consumption updates, its maybe every couple of minutes.
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