Water softener systems

[Andrew]

It's been through three people, so should be adequately 'filtered' :-)

[GB]

How does that alter the chemistry in any way? It doesn't remove the calcium ions or the bicarbonate, which react together when heated to form insoluble calcium carbonate.

[GB]

I haven't noticed any change.

[tabbypurr]

I don't believe calcium intake causes kidney stones afaik. It is however essential to life. And water contains more than just calcium.

NT

[tabbypurr]

I don't know why it stops it depositing & adhering. GIYF.

[GB]

I don't doubt that google will bring up anecdotal accounts from people who have spent money on these systems and convinced themselves.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I dont believe it is.

[The Natural Philosopher]

No it hasnt.

Sandstone and grit aquifers do not harden water

[The Natural Philosopher]

Yaeh. Its largely water I believe.

[Huge]

Where "5 minutes" equals "every 2 weeks".

Oh, it's really simple. The only systems which work are the salt-based ion exchange ones. All the others are snake-oil woo.

[Max Demian]

I've got a "Scalemaster Magnetic Speedfit Scale Inhibitor" wrapped around my mains water input pipe, though it's entirely passive with no mains connection. No-one seems to know how - or if - these things work:

Maybe it's like copper (or magnetic) bracelets for rheumatism.

[Max Demian]

WIYF:

[Max Demian]

I don't know about that, but it may stop harmful chemicals (like copper or lead in old pipes) from being dissolved.

[Max Demian]

You'll need to connect the WC to the unsoftened supply or you'll be recharging it unnecessarily frequently.

[Huge]

I disagree. (a) it isn't worth worrying about & (b) if you flush the loo with softened water, you don't get scale marks on the pan.

[Roger Hayter]

I was going to say, that policy depends very much on whether the system designer is, or talks to, the person who cleans the toilet.

[Peter Parry]

Most Ion Exchange systems need filling about once a month.

Yes - Ion exchange water softeners work. Phosphate dosing systems partially work - they reduce the problem of pipes getting clogged but don't stop marks on taps, sinks etc. Permanent magnet systems don't work in domestic environments. "Electronic" ones such as the one you linked to do not work at all.

Correct.

Some years ago during a very long running discussion of these devices I cobbled together a test rig to measure the scale deposition in a heated pipe. A kind Irishman who used to sell permanent magnet systems donated a couple to try. An electronic one came from a neighbour, a local plumber gave me phosphate dosing system and an Ion Exchange system I already had.

Using tap water (hard around here) the results were as above. The permanent magnet system actually worked a bit but only when the same water was re circulated very many times through it (which is common in industrial cooling systems where permanent magnets are sometimes found but irrelevant for domestic use where water only passes once.)

The electronic system had no measurable effect at all whether the water passed it once or many times.

The phosphate dosing system prevented scale build up on the test pipe..

The Advertising Standards Agency say " The ASA understands that no universally accepted theory about how these devices operate and no evidence to support the contention that the devices can inhibit scale formation generally exists."

and

are worth reading.

[David]

We had one of those wonder magnetic electric coil things when we moved in. Did bugger all to soften the water.

We now have a salt based water softener which does a proper job.

We have one which takes salt tablets, which involves buggering about with a bag of tablets every few weeks.

The ones which take blocks of salt are a bit more expensive but they are so much easier to keep topped up with salt.

In the last house we had phosphate dosing on the cold feed to the combi boiler so I can't really comment on whole house water softening with a phosphate doser.

Cheers

Dave R

[newshound]

My "balls" one lasts years between top-ups (but it only feeds the header tank for the DHW). Non thermostat ceramic shower mixer valve has needed no attention in 15 years.

[dennis]

Can anyone with a system installed comment please?

There is also reverse osmosis but it wastes water.

That will remove a lot of stuff that water softeners can't remove. They are cheaper than water softeners but they don't have a very high throughput so you need a storage tank.

I just bought a pumped seven stage one for my fish from amazon warehouse deals.

Particle filter to take out any solids Carbon filter to take out the chlorine (needed to stop the membrane being damaged). Another carbon filter to take out chloroamines Membrane

12l Tank post tank carbon filter something to re-mineralize it (not being used) UV sterilizer (not being used)

All for about £117.