water meters

That really is the big lie. The pit closures far more draconian that Scargill ever dared claim were prepared *in advance*. The whole was designed and orchestrated by Thatcher.

Reply to
John Cartmell
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Lord Hall at it again. The longest sustained economic growth in history under the present government. Fabulous..

They should have given her the ducking stool.

The fireworks will fly.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

The message from John Cartmell contains these words:

You really are a piece of shit Cartmell. There is no lie to it, let alone a big lie. You are the practitioner of the big lie, sprinkling your propaganda with bullshit to back up the lack of facts.

I seriously doubt your basic claim - that the Thatcher government had plans to close twice as many pits as Scagill claimed prior to Scagill promoting the idea - if only because the outcome would likely have been a negative number of pits left working. But there is a vast gap between planning and successful outcome as the current government has found out. Scagill picked a fight with the Thatcher government thinking he would win and based on Heaths and Callaghans election defeats he probably had a point. But it didn't matter to him that a majority of his members would not have supported a strike vote at that time. He called them out anyway relying on loyalty to the union and the subsequent strike was as much a fight among the miners as it was a battle between union and state. Once the striking miners had been driven back to work (or out of the industry altogether) it became much easier to close pits at will. The battle had already been fought and lost. A better general would have played a waiting game rather than attacking the enemy prematurely and taking on the silent majority of his own side at the same time.

Why don't you use the Freedom of Information Act to try and dig up some supporting evidence. I am sure the present government would be only too happy to release all available information that showed up Thatcher in a bad light.

Reply to
Roger

Who He??

Unfortunately not here.

Redundancies wall to wall. I've never seen the like of it previously.

< Snip senile drivel. >

DG

Reply to
Derek ^

It appears you deserve it.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember John Cartmell saying something like:

Squaddies in police uniforms were among the numberless police.

Reply to
Grimly Curmudgeon

Its been going on for about 25 years now. Just shows what happens when the Conservatives are in power.

Reply to
dennis

In article , Roger wrote: [insults SNIPped]

I cannot remember the exact numbers - and don't have the references to hand - but I can assure you that Scargill was leaked the wrong info (ie told that it was bad but not as bad as it was really planned to be) - and deliberately lightened that message because he didn't think anyone would believe it to be

*that* bad.

What you report is the government line at the time. It was black propaganda through and through. It has all been reported since - though probably not in the Daily Mail - but no-one is that much interested anymore.

But at least you now know why some people don't like Thatcher - even if you don't want to believe it.

Reply to
John Cartmell

Your negative numbers argument is laughable. The original numbers were for 20 pits to close. Go on, check the figures. Then check the facts on how many the evil bitch and her lap dogs actually closed. You'll find that all the evidence is already in the public domain. History will in time record it as one of the most treacherous acts a British government has *ever* carried out.

Reply to
Matt

Where did you get this from?

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

So when the rules had to be changed for the unemloyed to sign fortnightly instead of weekly because they couldn't fit them in the offices - in the 80s - that was economic growth? And when the 'family silver' was sold off - that was economic growth? And when industries were disintegrating on a daily basis - that was economic growth? And when unemployment reached a peak in excess of 4 million and new schemes were thought of weekly to hide the extent of the unemployment - that was economic growth?

You redefine black to mean white.

Reply to
John Cartmell

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "Doctor Drivel" saying something like:

From a squaddie.

Reply to
Grimly Curmudgeon

Certainly I've heard it - and from a believable source - but I cannot remember having seen it proved.

Reply to
John Cartmell

Well I believe you. Any soldier who turns on his own people deserves to be shot.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

The miners strike became a north vs. south and the south won. The south viewed the north of England as backwards and dirty even though I know few who have actually been there. The police (and squadies?) beat down the miners to the glee of the southerners. I felt ashamed to be amongst them and they gloated watching the TV pictures. Then they would walk home stepping over 1000s of sleeping bodies in the streets and said it was all their own fault too. The power of media poisoned their minds as they had nothing to gain from Thatcher.

The biggest mystery of British politics is how she was in power for so long when it was clear the damage she was doing. Tony Benn said it was costing the nation a fortune in protecting the Prime Minister from the British people, and that wasn't including the IRA.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

I don't doubt it, but the government did not have the full support of the soldiers. I recall being in Honk Kong at the time, and seeing a few soldiers sitting in a bar in Stanley with "Coal Not Dole" tee shirts on.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

I didn't know that you were a squaddy.....

Reply to
Andy Hall

Morning Star... Socialist Worker... Pravda... Bunty.... ?

Reply to
Andy Hall

You must have superb eyesight to be able to see all the way to the Falklands from there.

Reply to
Andy Hall

The message from "Doctor Drivel" contains these words:

Some people have better reasons for hating Thatcher than support for Scagills attempted revolution.

Well Yorkshire is North of Nottinghamshire but in the end the Nottinghamshire miners lost as well. The S. Wales, Kent and other remnant Coal fields were only minor side issues.

Reply to
Roger

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