wall preparation / burglar alarm questions

[biod]

We've finally got round to starting redecorating the house we moved into

last year and have got a couple of questions -

It's a modern house with plasterboard walls. We've stripped the vinyl wallpaper with a steamer. This has left us with some small expanses of bare plasterboard, and larger areas of a coat of vinyl paint, much of which is smooth but some of which as bubbled under the steamer - what's the best way to attack it and end up with a smooth surface ?

We removed a dado rail which had been stuck to the wallpaper. Unfortunately, the glue had soaked through the wallpaper and in some places has taken the top layer of plasterboard off - whats the best thing to fill it with.

and finally, burglar alarm sensor in one corner of the room is loose and needs re-attaching. You have to open the sensor to get at the screw, but every time you open the sensor case, the alarm goes off, even though the alarm is switched off. (the alarm is a 'logic 400; with 4 key positions - off, test, part and full - we rarely turn it on, and its off now)

and thoughts appreciated

Mike

[Dave Plowman]

At least this proves the anti-tamper circuit is working. To turn this off, you usually need to know the engineering code.

[Exiddor]

Turn the key to the "Test" position before opening the sensor. This will inhibit the tamper circuit.

[biod]

Ta, I'll try that at the weekend - don't like disturbing the neighbours after work !

[ARWadsworth]

Sometimes after opening the sensor case you need to turn the key from off to test to disable the tamper. And sometimes from off to full and then back to off or test.

Adam

[SantaUK]

And anyway, the outside bell "shouldn't" be going if the system isnt set.

[Dave Liquorice]

Pretty sure a Self Activating Bell will if it loses volts on the hold off loop. Stops people quietly cutting the cable between it and the panel.

[BigWallop]

Wrong I'm afraid. If the system detects a tamper attack, then it should give warning by sounding everything it's got to throw at you. Be it external and internal sounders and even the sounder inside the panel itself. It is a warning that an attempt to compromise the system is taking place, so if it doesn't give warning about such an attack, then it's useless.

[Dave Plowman]

What's the purpose of an anti-tamper loop, then?

[Exiddor]

Errm, to prevent tampering :-) Seriously, breaking the tamper circuit in an unset system will activate the internal sounders only. This will give notice of any tampering or fault on the circuits while the system is unset.

If the system is set, breaking the tamper circuit will give a full alarm - this will activate external monitoring and/or all internal/external sounders depending on the system.

Believe me, I know - I have one of the subject panels in my house (as well as being an alarm service engineer for 38 years). BTW, there is no engineer code for this panel - it's an old key-operated unit.

[BigWallop]

So your tamper system only sounds at the panel ? Brilliant !!!! I must follow you around after you've done any service work. Should make me'self a few bob, stealing the external sounders.

[Exiddor]

Try reading what I said again.

[BigWallop]

And read what I said again.

After you've serviced the system, it is more than likely that the people are still in the house with the alarm "Unset". So following you around, I should be able to take the external sounder off the wall and be away on my toes, well before the occupier has realised what the F is going on and begins fiddling with the control.

So agian, I'll repeat. I should be able to make me'self a few bob on external sounders if I follow you around.

[Exiddor]

That's one of the reasons for having a SAB/SCB.

Feel free - any of the major banks in the Manchester area. You might be in for a little surprise though :-)

[BigWallop]

So you don't loop tamper the Self Activating Bell with the rest of the system tamper ? Or do you isolate the tamper on the external sounder from the rest of the system in some way ?

Every tamper switch, on all our systems at least, are interconnected by default. So if one goes active, they all go active, including the external sounders. And any anti-tamper system, I am aware of anyway, should be fully active continually, be the system set or unset. I thought the whole point of having an anti-tamper system, looped around all connected appliances and peripherals, was there to give a warning of someone or something interfering with what shouldn't be interfered with, and it should give this warning through all connected sounder and other indicator devices, which, to me and many others in my neck of the woods, means the external sounder as well as internal.

But being twenty years in the security trade, and after designing and beta testing some the leading systems on the current market, I might still be wrong in this point and would love to hear from anyone who knows what I've been doing wrong all this time.

[Exiddor]

This discussion is really getting a little too detailed for a public newsgroup. For obvious reasons I'd prefer to take this to email if you'd care to continue.

My email address on this article is valid and is checked about once a day.

[Andrew Gabriel]

But warn who? Does the whole street need to know you just put a nail through an alarm cable, or just those in the household? A false alarm of this nature is very likely to make a genuine alarm ignored. Anti-tamper system should certainly be active all the time, but that doesn't mean it always has to generate the same type of alarm (panel capabilities permitting).

[BigWallop]

No, thank you. Please don't take offence at the refusal, it's just that I don't like talking business when I'm relaxing at the computer. I do enough when on these crazy shifts, so when the chance comes to diversify on to other things in here, then I jump at it. After all these years of the same Sameness, I find it is not worth arguing over others opinions of what the sameness should be.

[Dave Liquorice]

Spherical objects. Any tealeaf worth his salt already knows how alarm systems work and may well have a better knowledge of more systems than a so called alarm engineer does.

I detect some one trying to hide behind the rocket science of alarms systems. Damn stupid 'cause rocket science they aren't. Now multiple zone panels, with multiple part sets and multiple user levels are another kettle of fish but that doesn't affect the simple wiring interconnecting sensors and the panel.

[Dave Liquorice]

Agreed.

Yes, but not a single loop. You get a tamper alarm but haven't a clue where to start loking so you have to disconnect each loop segment until you find the problem, *if* it's still there.

Our system has a individual alarm and tampers loops per zone. You get an indication of which zone has raised the tamper, which is also logged. If you are in you can head straight off with the base ball bat to that part of the building...

Hum, is that a bucket of sand I see? Our panel is nothing special, and about 10 years old... It's not a shed bought cheapy unit but I wouldn't want a panel that can't tell me which zone a tamper has taken place in.