UK preps ww2 style energy rationing, etc

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/06/10/uk_preps_ww2style_energy_rationing/
The UK government will today set out Second World War-style measures to kee p the lights on and avert power cuts as a "last resort". The price to Brito ns will be high.
Factories will be asked to "voluntarily" shut down to save energy at peak t imes for homes, while others will be paid to provide their own backup power should they have a spare generator or two lying around. And as part of the government's wider energy market reforms, electricity producers will be ab le to name their price for bringing mothballed fossil-fuel-powered plants b ack on line.
The problem is that the energy plants were closed due to compliance with EU environmental regulations, but the UK has failed to build adequate replace ments. This means the country can barely cope with peak winter demand. Succ essive governments have chosen to build expensive, unreliable renewables in stead - which can't meet the nation's peak energy needs.
In an interview ahead of a speech today, energy minister Ed Davey - a Liber al Democrat and Oxford philosophy, politics and economics graduate - said b usinesses would be "delighted" to be paid to go dark - and said the measure s were good value compared to building new power stations.
Davey predicted the UK would not suffer power cuts, and he may be right. Bu t the price to consumers will be high: with the UK paying far over the mark et rate for new fossil-fuel energy.
Gas plants have closed because they're not economical to run when ticking a long; when demand is under 57 per cent, the operator may as well close it. The government's complex measures include a new "Capacity Market", which en courages mothballed gas and coal plants to be pressed into action.
Energy market experts predict that because the UK's need is so urgent, the producers will be able to demand a high price: "existing gas and coal plant (particularly older assets close to retirement) may have significant lever age in negotiating reserve contracts with Grid as the system capacity margi n tightens," consultants at Timera Energy noted this year.
Dirty diesel already contributes one quarter, or around 500MW, of the Natio nal Grid's Short Term Operating Reserve (STOR). The cost to the taxpayer of maintaining and using diesel backup - fleets of generators parked in shipp ing containers - is astronomical around 12 times the market rate. The Natio nal Grid wants to expand STOR from 2GW to about 8GW.
If Blighty's governments had opted for gas rather than wind, they could hav e met the EU carbon-dioxide emissions targets for one-tenth of the £120bn cost to install wind farms, calculated Professor Gordon Hughes in a 2012 s tudy.
The UK government's Department of Energy and Climate Change promised us a c opy of Davey's speech, or excerpts of it, but much like the power stations, it hasn't shown up. He's due to speak at 1.40pm, UK time, today.
The capacity crunch has been predicted for about seven years, with voices s uch as Professor Ian Fells warning UK energy policy would lead to either po wer cuts or extremely high peak prices. Everyone seems to have seen this co ming - except the people in charge. (R)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Phil wrote:
    It may get even worse. I am told that in France the metal thieves are now targeting windmills and stripping out the cables and even the generators! So wind power looks even more unreliable.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 13/06/2014 16:09, Capitol wrote:

The generators contain copper - obviously. Less obviously some have neodymium magnets. The SOLE source of supply for neodymium (and other "rare earth" metals) is China because the mining process produces large amounts of radioactive waste. A recent attempt to re-open an American mine was stopped for this reason.
It's also used in motors for electric cars, computer discs etc and is much in demand.
Another Dave
--
Change nospam to gmx in e-mail.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 13/06/2014 16:09, Capitol wrote:

about time some one in government made a decision with regard to the future of our energy supply, the severn barrage is probably the best energy generator, with the advantage of controlling high tides and thus the possible flooding of areas of the severn.There would be no harm to waders (flying type), melting ice cap flooding would not happen because of the control.Road access between wales and the south west would be an extra.
--
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 13/06/2014 17:14, critcher wrote:

Well... you need to do Morecambe Bay too, so that each can fill in the slack tide period for the other.
And that will only give you 2-3GW continuous. For a rather large price.
Andy
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Yes. As is usual with so-called renewables, you have to build at least two power sources to get the output of one. With wind, you need some backup such as gas, with tidal it's worse because your output would always have a sinusoidal component unless the two barrages' tides were 180deg out of phase. Are they, for Severn and Morecombe Bay? And if so, are the bays of similar size and shape so that the power outputs would be of similar magnitude?
If not, better of building a new nuclear power station.
--
Anyone who slaps a 'this page is best viewed with Browser X' label on
a Web page appears to be yearning for the bad old days, before the Web,
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 15/06/2014 21:43, Tim Streater wrote:

90 degrees / 6 hours. Which is what you want - full flow on one while the other is at slack tide. But then you DON'T need a gas backup, you have reliable power 24/265, so it's better than wind.

No. Severn could generate a lot more. You have to size for the weak point.

Abso-bloody-lutely.
Andy
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Yes, you're right, 90 is what you want. I did wonder about that when I wrote it, but I was thinking about the rabbit that the cat brought in yesterday. Which I then had to catch as it legged it round the house.
--
"If you're not able to ask questions and deal with the answers without feeling
that someone has called your intelligence or competence into question, don't
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

And you wouldn't get a single watt out of it until both were completed.
--
"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.