Tumble dryers revisited.

On 1/1/2018 3:49 PM, Max Demian wrote:

I used a windowsill, too, but I draped a wet towel over the milk/butter/etc.
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On 01/01/2018 23:31, S Viemeister wrote:

An outside storage place is useful even if you have a fridge. The place I lived at before now had a porch cupboard which was useful to keep old potatoes which use up too much space in a fridge and which don't like to be too cold - just a cool, dark place. I kept other root vegetables and large bottles of cider there too, in the winter. My old potatoes are sprouting like mad now. A good job Asda gave up their daft idea of not selling loose potatoes (and carrots) recently.
--
Max Demian

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On 1/2/2018 6:41 AM, Max Demian wrote:

Years ago, many houses were built with well-ventilated larders. My Granny's kitchen had a larder on the shady side of the house, with a wire box sticking out of its window, for keeping things cool - that's where I learned the wet towel trick.
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On 02/01/2018 12:39, S Viemeister wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larder
In the house that my parents build in 1956-7 there was a small larder, which, though not on the north of the house, had a "window opening covered in fine mesh" - to keep out the flies. There was also a tiled concrete slab - "A pantry may contain a thrawl, a term used in Derbyshire and Yorkshire, to denote a stone slab or shelf used to keep food cool in the days before refrigeration was domestically available" - though I never heard it referred to by that name, and I don't know how it was described to the builder, or whether it served the purpose. They eventually bought a refrigerator, though it was placed in the hall as there was no room in the kitchenette.
--
Max Demian

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On 1/2/2018 2:25 PM, Max Demian wrote:

I've seen old houses with kitchen storerooms lined with stone shelves. I've not heard the term thrawl, though. Now I'm curious - I think I'll poke around in my Scots dictionaries, to see if I can find what they'd have been called in Granny's day.
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On Tuesday, 2 January 2018 22:11:47 UTC, S Viemeister wrote:

They would moderate the hot swings a bit in the day. Were they also wetted for additional cooling?
NT
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On Mon, 1 Jan 2018 18:31:18 -0500, S Viemeister

In the days before keg beer and cooling systems landlords used Hessian sacks soaked in water to to keep the casks cool on hot days.
May not reach the low "we market it this cold as refreshing but really it is anathematize your taste buds because the taste is foul really" temperatures found in recent years for some drinks but still cool enough on a hot day to be appreciated.
G.Harman
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On Sunday, 31 December 2017 01:56:20 UTC, T i m wrote:

The faster the wind blows, the faster heat is transferred from ambient to t he water in the clothes. I've subjected clothes to some pretty strong winds and afaik they've not frozen. I suppose if they did they'd thaw again almo st instantly.
The same basic principle applies to evaporation, the faster the wind speed the faster the evaporation. Fans dry clothes with a small fraction of the e nergy use of heat. Whoever designs tumble dryers must be stuck in the 20th century, they're abysmally slow and inefficient compared to their potential . And they damage clothes more than necessary.
NT
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On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 21:02:02 -0800 (PST), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
<snip> >The faster the wind blows, the faster heat is transferred from ambient to the water in the clothes.
Ok.

Ok.

Ok.

So, for water to make the leap to vapour it must take energy from the environment to do so. If that environment is open and therefore potentially limitless then I could see that being the case. I'm not sure how it might fair in an enclosed world (especially if the air was trapped etc).

True ... but isn't that only true because it moves the water vapour away from the clothes and increase the supply of low level energy?

I wonder why they haven't made a wind turbine model though?
Would it have to be much bigger to get sufficient airflow ... and sound like a jet taking off?
I now a fan + de-humidifier make for a good low energy clothes dryer but the separation has to be done manually. Maybe you would need to try the concept in one of those skydiving machines first? ;-)
Cheers, T i m
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On Sunday, 31 December 2017 11:09:30 UTC, T i m wrote:

if you enclosed the air it would quickly saturate, and no further evaporation occurs

I'm not clear what that means, or what significant difference it makes what's happening at the microscopic level

maybe have never done the basic experiments to see how windspeed, tumble speed and heat all affect drying times, with wind speed going up to much higher than today's machines.

the machine no. the fan yes

large fans move lots of air without that noise

I've tried dehumidification with & without fans. Dehumidification does improve drying speed but not greatly, and the cost is pointless once you've got a fan.
NT
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On 31/12/2017 05:02, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

You haven't pegged them out on a line in January when its 1C then. They freeze if its windy.
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On Sun, 31 Dec 2017 11:18:35 +0000, "dennis@home"

And of course at those thresholds it's a vicious circle. Increase the wind speed and whilst that increases the amount of low level energy to help the evaporation process, it also increases the evaporation process that increases the chill factor (latent heat of vaporisation) and in turn lowering the temperature in the water in the clothes.
So what we need is some way to heat some more heat energy into the clothes to keep the temperature up and make them dry faster, even when it's cold outside. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
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On Sunday, 31 December 2017 11:55:04 UTC, T i m wrote:

High airspeed at 1C means any frosting will be thawed out rapidly. But no-one runs TDs at 1C afaik.
NT
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On Sunday, 31 December 2017 11:18:40 UTC, dennis@home wrote:

I expect we've all done that. It's of no relevance though.
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On 31/12/2017 12:53, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

No its just proof that what you said isn't true!
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On Sunday, 31 December 2017 13:02:43 UTC, dennis@home wrote:

oh dear
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We have a Bosch heat pump dryer. We like it* and it does the job it is asked to do. Downsides are initial cost, and the one we have doesn't reverse tumble*.
*You'd think that wouldn't be a problem - until you forget to button up the duvet cover before drying it and end up with a twisted wet mass of clothes inside it :(
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wrote:

Are you able to say / tell if it does so better than others you have had Lee?

Yes, they do look quite expensive (only see the Bosch so far) and I guess you would have to compare the extra initial cost with the energy savings over the machines life span?

I'm not sure about that on our existing one as the belt has a tensioner on one leg and the drive motor also (directly) drives the blower?

Ah, yes, no fun that. Given I've never seen anything coming out twisted up, ours must reverse I'm guessing then.
Cheers, T i m
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On 28/12/2017 01:30, T i m wrote:

It's a great deal better than the washer dryer we had before, but I guess that's not saying much :)
Most of the complaints about heat pump dryers (apart from the cost) is people saying they take longer to dry, I'm not convinced this is the problem people make it out to be. A "normal" load of say a bedding change (cotton) and a couple of towels spun at 1600rpm dries in about 2.5 hours. AFAICS this is about on par with a non heat pump machine.
I guess spinning at a lower speed or putting m,ore stuff in will greatly affect drying time.
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On 28/12/2017 13:17, Lee wrote:

I believe that like some freezers, Heat Pump driers aren't able to cope with winter garage temperatures which might be where some of the more extreme non-drying times are quoted as I'd suspect there's a very large percentage of UK residents that have both washing machine and tumbledrier in the garage or some form of un-heated utility room. It's something manufacturers haven't (as far as I'm aware) taken into consideration when detailing the location requirements.
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