Tumble dryer thoughts ...

[T i m]

Hi all,

A bit OT possibly but we may soon need a new tumble dryer and I know many of you practical people may deal with such things (so I'd get practical answers). ;-)

We have had a Zanussi TD-534 for a good few years and I've repaired it a couple of times (last was a new belt, drum front felt seal / bearing and rear bearing).

However it's now starting to make some extra noises and blowing out humid air from somewhere (I'll check the vent path again in the meantime) but I think it may be nearing the end. ;-(

Having a Google about reminds me what a minefield all this can be ... finding something that is likely to be reliable, side venting (lhs) [1], reasonably quiet, ideally moisture sensing and affordable.

For 'reliable' it seems that 2 years doesn't seem uncommon against the

12 or so years from what we have now.

Then there's the vented v condensing (and does the condenser have a plumbed in drain option). We could use the heat given off by a condensing machine in the winter and can deal with it easily in the summer.

Or gas v electric (we have a gas feed nearby but would need a machine professionally installed etc).

All the best,

T i m

p.s. Assuming the efficiency of these things hasn't really improved much over the years, I actually wondered if even replacing the main parts might still be cost effective (as I don't mind doing a bit of fettling and keep the physical format that works).

[1] The other side of the wall to the machine is a public footpath so the vent comes out the left rear side of the machine on a short length of flexible hose then up to ceiling height and outside via rigid trucking.

[F]

The 'washing machine and tumble dryer' forum at

is a pretty good (and reliable) source of advice/information.

[T i m]

Yeah, I have used them before (and I had a quick look about before I posted here) when I was given a broken 13 month Zanussi washing machine that was 'irreparable (and how come I got it in the first place via Freecycle). Apparently you can't open a sealed plastic drum and if you could you couldn't re-seal it.

I think it's been going over a year now as is as good as gold. ;-)

With due respect to them (and they did offer lots of good advice) they are probably thinking along the commercial viability lines when it comes to solutions, not the make-do-and-mend advice that might be available here.

I for example would be more than happy to change whatever was worn, up to the value of a new equivalent machine on the grounds that it did work very well and is physically ideally suited to our needs / location etc.

How many new things have we bought that don't work as well as the items they replaced (even if they had bells and whistles that we probably don't use)?

Cheers, T i m

[Harry Bloomfield]

I would suggest condensing - my feeling is that as the air is recirculated they will be more efficient. They also have the advantage of needing fewer pipes/cables - so less to disconnect to work on them.

We have a combined washer/ condensing dryer.

No contest - electric.

[T i m]

Do you feel the 'condensation stays in the machine Harry? At the moment, because of the leak in the vent or general wear and tear you can easily notice the humidity in the area of our (vented) dryer. This isn't typical and used to be an indicator that one of the unused vent ports (it has one in the back and one each side ... will you get that on any new dryer?) may have popped off. A bit of gaffa tape soon sorts it out (you can't see the sides or back in use).

Oh? Those people who have had gas seem to suggest they are the 'dogs' but maybe the changing price of energy or the actual machine cost has made it less desirable? FWIW we normally run all such stuff on the E7 rate.

Cheers, T i m

[NT]

I do agree with keeping long lived reliable machines, seems foolish to replace them with something worse. OTOH condensing machines cost a lot less to run than vented. Maybe if you repair it you might contemplate adapting it to condensing, not too difficult.

There's always

[Harry Bloomfield]

T i m submitted this idea :

Definately, on our machine at least. You cannot tell it is drying, except by checking its program lights. It is almost completely sealed anyway.

That would seem to make it an even better bet to use electric. Depending upon the urgency and the weather, we use either the dryer or hang things up in the utility with a dehumidifier plus a fan running to stir the air. The latter method is more economical.

[T i m]

Yup. ;-)

Is that unequivocal these days. An important point for us.

I think that may be one step too far. ;-)

looked like it was at the end a while back. I have used the de-humidifier idea a few times in the bathroom for drying daughters chainsaw trousers and enquired (here) re an good (but affordable) external humidistat to manage it with (the internal one seems very vague).

However, for the everyday stuff the Mrs wouldn't want the ironing or the bother of hanging stuff up.

It was if we were going to spend some money we'd like to think it was the most cost efficient (short and long term) with the lest practical hangups (emptying condensate tanks or ironing etc). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[Harry Bloomfield]

T i m expressed precisely :

Our dehumidifier seems to be very settable, so you may have had a bad one.

Ours has the option (most do I think) of fitting a condensate drain. It sits on the work top in the utility and its drain goes straight in the sink.

[T i m]

Ok.

Hmm,

The ideal place for us to have such a system would be in the bathroom.

Pros:

1) It's downstairs next to the washing machine and tumble dryer.

2) We have a large corner bath which would take a standing 'horse' or some suspended rails.

3) The de-humidifier could live in the louvre doored 'airing cupboard' (that currently contains the slimline storage heater).

4) A tangential fan could be built in the top panel of said cupboard to increase the airflow / warmth round the room.

5) The cupboard has two external walls for the condensate output pipe.

6) The de-humidifier would help de-humidify the room after showers and baths etc.

7) I have most the bits needed.

Cons.

1) It's going get in the way when we want to use the bath / shower (would need lifting out into the kitchen).

2) It would take more effort to use (hanging up, taking off).

3) Some stuff may need ironing?

So, I can't see her 'liking' the idea.

However, I'm sure she wouldn't mind me having a play IF it was shown that:

1) It worked

2) Saved quite a bit of money

3) Didn't get in her way.

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

Maybe. However, I'm not sure 'on / in' the machine is the best place for it in any case? I would have thought one in the actual cupboard might be a better bet (even if I have to retro fit it myself)?

That option would be a given or she wouldn't consider it acceptable (her Mum had one and she hated emptying it).

The good news for us is the tumble dryer sits on it's own shelf over the washing machine and so if the drying can discharge into the wm standpipe we are ready to rock.

So, as a stepping stone / complementary solution to the de-humidifier room, any particular makes / models of condensing dryer stand out as being particularly good (vfm) please?

Cheers,

T i m

[Harry Bloomfield]

T i m submitted this idea :

I can't really help you there, we are on (I think) our fourth or fifth automatic - only the last two (of that I'm certain) have been combined condensing dryers. The one before last limped along for 8 years. Our current Hotpoint Aquarius has needed me to fix it 3 times in three years since we got it - as in the dryer over temperature stat tripping out twice and a few weeks ago, the main PCB developing a fault. I have managed to fix each at no cost so far. The last problem I managed to trace to a failing 20p capacitor, but the quote from a repair establishment was around £200 - so not really viable. The machine looks like new, but the cost of repair would have most people looking to simply replace it.

As with most things here - Because I can so often fix them, we tend to keep them a long time.

[T i m]

Ok and thanks.

You buy a new machine for £200 every two years or spend £100 to fix up a £400 machine for another couple on the 6 it has lasts already. That doesn't cater for utility room colour changes or fads in fashion I guess.

;-)

Yup.

Likewise. I think all this waste, throwing things away because of a trivial fault (as they appears to us) is a big shame [1]. In some cases the faulty are really trivial ... like a foreign object in a drain pump, something that could be unblocked wit a basic 'user' level of intervention? ;-(

Cheers, T i m

[1] No problem if they get picked up by someone who 'can' before they get crushed.

[NT]

it is really. A vented machine throws all the hot damp air out, a condenser only removes part of the heat. A TD is one appliance where run cost exceeds purchase cost.

fwiw its quite easy. either

- disconnect heating element and connect a dehumidifier to the TD's air in & out ports.

- or loop the in & out ports with a big flat metal surface and reduce element power with a capacitor or series connect the 2. Beware of motors in series with an element. ... but life is short

condensing td it is then

NT

[David]

We just purchased a Miele T7634 vented dryer, it's very good and there is never any moisture or heat given out in the room it is in; this is important for us as the room that it is in is relatively small. An extremely quiet machine and certainly built to last, the sensor is very accurate and never leaves us with damp clothes.

[T i m]

Ah, ok. ;-)

T i m

[T i m]

I think we might actually like the heat (I've actually considered recovering it when I see the plumes of water vapour blowing into the night sky). ;-(

Whilst noise isn't a big issue (utility area diagonally opposite from our bedroom) we are sometimes near it and so quieter is good.

I ended up with the Miele 'Big Cat n Dog' cleaner because my sound level meter showed it was the quietest machine in the shop. ;-)

Not cheap mind but has been a good tool so far.

I think that was the way with the Zanussi when it was young but has just been on the timer for a while now.

~£525 for the Miele (more for the condenser version) ... FWIW, getting pretty close to ISE10 CD60W money and that's got a 10 year guarantee and parts at cost should you need them (they say)?

Hmmm ....

Cheers, T i m

[Fredxx]

AEG do one in the same ball-park price range which has a built in heat pump / condenser.

More for information, as I am aware you intend to use off-peak electricity, so the savings would be reduced accordingly.

[T i m]

And that's the db's if I understand it?

Tricky isn't it.

I can't remember what we paid for the Zanussi sensing jobby all those years ago but I guess it might not have been the cheapest on the floor. But then, buying a Zanussi (or better, AEG, as with our Lavamat [1]) meant you generally has something that would last (like stainless steel drums etc).

I'm not sure that holds good any more.

So, you pay a lot but with that you get some peace of mind (ISE condenser with 10 yr guarantee and cheap parts after that), with reasonable cost savings over a vented or something (AEG heat pump) that should it last the 10 years trouble free, you stand to save a bit on energy costs , especially as those costs rise.

Reading around I'm still seeing suggestions that non vented machines do increase the humidity around them (by 20% or so). Vented pump more heat outdoors. ;-(

Cheers, T i m

[1] That lasted over 15 years with one bearing change, a motor de-dust and a new pump out pump (Zanussi one, 50% cheaper). ;-)

[terry]

Just a thought. And one knows this is unfashionable in this conserving day and age.

But; a typical medium load in our well used (see below) standard North American 230 volt dryer takes about half to three quarters of an hour. If we assume that the heater is on 'all' the time during the drying cycle, which it would not actually be, the cost of electricity, even though we just vent the dryer outside and chuck all the the heat and moisture into the atmosphere, will be about 0.6 hrs. x 3kw. x $0.1 =3D about 18 cents Canadian or roughly 10 new pence. Per load; which probably comprises at least ten to twenty items? Hence drying cost one penny per item or less.

Even if the dryer is run once every day; that's about 300 pence per month, or around 30 to 40 quid per year. It hardly seems enough to get one's knickers in a dry twist? And even if the above is out by 100% and the running time and cost are double; say 60 to 80 quid per year, that hardly seems to be worthwhile worrying about? While we still have our original dryer, same age as our eldest, now 47, it did burn out it's motor a few years ago and none of the spares motors we had on hand were suitable! We will probably now scrap it; saving the timer and any other bits worth having on hand as spares

Used (tumble) dryers here are often free for the taking; so we have been using a standard catalogue company (Sears) type dryer which cost one dozen beer; "What kind do you prefer?" ................... "Ok I'll be there within the hour; give me a hand to load it in my pickup. OK?". We did and it's worked fine for the last two or three years.

The only repairs to the 'dozen beer' dryer, were to initially re- terminate the connection wires (which had been badly done) and replace our original plastic hose to the outside vent with a metallized one, as preferred by insurance companies.

We have another 'spare' dryer in our storeroom, I think it cost around $25? It was loaned to and then returned a few years ago, by a grateful divorced mum, after she renovated her house, (It needs a $3.50 belt). And more recently another free dryer parked in relatives garage until somebody wants it! For free. And of course in summer and sometimes winter also, heavy items such as blankets or very large amounts of towels can be dried on the clothes line although this is rare.

There is a gadget that one can fit into the exhaust vent that supposedly 'recovers' some of the heat that is exhausted; haven't costed it in recent years but installed and hooked up to an outlet probably around $80 to $120? So again; the cost and trouble of anything other than free dryer and say around 100 quid of electricity per annum is hardly worth while??????? It's nice to be green (95% of our electrcity, in not too distant future to be 100%, is generated by hydro power); but economics keep getting in the way!