The reasons why windmills wont work...

[Fevric J Glandules]

To join the chorus, some people do. Conversely I'm quite happy at temperatures that others find intolerably hot.

[tim (not at home)]

But 25 is still too much

My apartment is (virtually) a constant 22 and it's too warm. But I can't get it lower because that's the heating effect of the water in the pipework running through the flat to serve the rest of the block.

tim

[David Hansen]

On Fri, 07 Mar 2008 16:24:02 +0000 someone who may be The Natural Philosopher wrote this:-

Ah,proof by assertion again.

There are two such plants in Wales, though one is somewhat larger.

[David Hansen]

On Fri, 7 Mar 2008 08:33:00 -0800 (PST) someone who may be [e-mail] wrote this:-

Incorrect. Some renewables are low density energy supplies, for example wind, others are rather more dense,fo example high head hydro.

You are I hope allowing for the area used to extract the fuel and convert it into a usable form (which involves a fair amount of land in the case of nuclear) and clean it up after use.

[David Hansen]

On Fri, 07 Mar 2008 20:02:14 +0000 someone who may be magwitch wrote this:-

Incorrect. Everyone does not forget this.

The foundations are included in calculations of life time emissions from wind farms. Vestas offer three reports on the subject at

for some of their turbines.

[David Hansen]

On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 08:10:45 +0000 someone who may be Roland Perry wrote this:-

Except that the claim is wrong. Not everyone forgets and foundations are included in life cycle assessments.

Are they? When I visited what was at the time the largest wind farm in the UK, Black Law (now probably the second largest), the loudest noise was that of motor vehicles being driven along the road. The next loudest noise was of people talking, children playing and so on. The next loudest noise was from the lambs and birds living at the wind farm. The wind also made a rustling noise on the grass and trees, but there was no discernable sound from the turbines themselves. This was at the nearest habitation to the farm.

There would be no problem having a conversation in a normal voice while walking around all parts of the installation.

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 12:40:28 on Sun, 9 Mar 2008, Mary Fisher remarked:

In the Winter: The heating is on all day, otherwise the house is too cold. Several of the lights are on all day otherwise we are sat in the dark.

All year: Our computers are on all day, or we can't work. We cook lunch at home, with our fuel, not fuel via a works canteen or a pub.

Is any of this a big surprise?

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 12:29:10 on Sun, 9 Mar 2008, Duncan Wood remarked:

Turning the fridge off when you are asleep is a bit extreme. Do you also switch off your alarm clock, cordless phone base and the smoke detectors? All of these are things I'm happy to keep running 24x7.

[David Hansen]

On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 17:47:04 +0000 someone who may be The Natural Philosopher wrote this:-

Then you should have no difficulty in providing a few URLs of these accounts, so we may gauge the veracity of the accounts.

[David Hansen]

On Fri, 07 Mar 2008 08:52:30 -0600 someone who may be Jules wrote this:-

It is not as unpredictable as some suggest.

is a good introduction to the subject.

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 12:03:02 on Sun, 9 Mar 2008, The Natural Philosopher remarked:

I was using a 100Amp supply [I checked] plus the gas heating.

With an electricity bill of £900 it's closer to 1Kw.

A third is spot on what I'd expect.

The other two thirds are split equally between transport and industry.

(Except that, working from home and with very good bus/train services used infrequently, I don't think I directly use very much "transport" energy at all).

[David Hansen]

On Sun, 9 Mar 2008 14:36:49 +0000 someone who may be Roland Perry wrote this:-

Are the walls, floors and loft insulated to the greatest possible extent? Does the heating come on and off automatically via thermostats, or does it stay on almost continuously? Are the rooms used during the day south facing to maximise solar gain?

Are they energy saving lights?

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 14:36:24 on Sun, 9 Mar 2008, David Hansen remarked:

On Usenet it's frustratingly impossible to use any expression like "everyone", "no-one", "all" or "none" because some smart person can always (sic) come up with a counterexample.

However, "the vast majority of the general public" is what I meant when I said "everyone".

Yes. When I visited my local country park (details posted previously) I wondered what the strange noise was. Turned out to be a couple of pretty small wind turbines a couple of hundred yards away.

What a strange criterion for acceptable background noise.

[Tim Ward]

The current recommendation, for eighteen inches of insulation, or whatever it is, flies in the face of practicality.

In real life many people aren't going to want insulation any deeper than the joists, or they won't be able to store stuff in the loft or walk around up there.

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 14:59:58 on Sun, 9 Mar 2008, David Hansen remarked:

The walls are solid, and while I've considered having insulation added internally it's a very big project and I'm not convinced it has a realistic payback.

The floors? Ground floor perhaps you mean. Half solid, half carpeted boards. Not sure what could be done there.

Loft: recently updated with a ludicrously well insulated loft conversion.

Every radiator has an individual thermostat.

Some are and some aren't. However we tens to keep the curtains drawn in winter to keep the heat from escaping, rather than open to let a trivial amount of solar energy in.

All lights use energy, I've never seen one that saved it.

Almost all the lights are CFLs, if that was what you were struggling to ask. Of course, the "waste" heat that other lights produce has to be replaced by heat from the central heating system.

[Andy Champ]

If he has the heating on all day, that matters very little. The waste heat from the lights will help heat the house.

Energy efficient lighting only really scores when you're outside (and the heat is lost) or it's warm anyway, as in summer or places where other equipment is doing the heating.

Andy

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 15:10:37 on Sun, 9 Mar 2008, Tim Ward remarked:

They could buy the sort of expensive insulation board that my loft conversion has about four inches of under the tiles. I see it has the name Xtratherm[tm].

it to fit is going to be quite an exercise, though.

[David Hansen]

On Fri, 7 Mar 2008 11:51:56 GMT someone who may be Roger wrote this:-

Another bit of that dream has gone belly up, despite decades of vast taxpayer subsidies

It is a pity officials and party politicians were too arrogant to listen to the voice of sanity before wasting vast amounts of my money on this white elephant.

"Minister admits total failure of Sellafield 'MOX' plant "By Geoffrey Lean "Sunday, 9 March 2008

"It was a deeply embarrassing moment for the Government, though it passed almost without notice.

"Late last month, the Energy Minister, Malcolm Wicks, had to admit to one of the most comprehensive and catastrophic failures in British industrial history ? and one that has led directly to the plans to ship weapons-ready plutonium to France.

"Answering a question from Dai Davies, the independent MP for Blaenau Gwent, Mr Wicks confessed that a new plant at Sellafield, built amid great controversy at a cost of £473m, had comprehensively failed to work. Originally designed to produce 120 tons a year of "mixed oxide" (MOX) nuclear fuel ? made of plutonium and uranium separated from nuclear waste by reprocessing ? it had in fact managed only 5.3 tons in five years of operation.

"The admission constituted a wholescale vindication for critics, including The Independent on Sunday, who have long denounced the plant as a waste of money based on unproven technology, which could also pose a terrorist risk.

"After the assault on the World Trade Center in September 2001, which came just before the plant was given approval to start operations, the then environment minister, Michael Meacher, asked for information on the opportunities it afforded terrorists after reading an article in The Independent on Sunday. But only a cursory review was carried out by the Office for Civilian Nuclear Security, which denied any threat in terms identical to those used by British Nuclear Fuels."

outlines the consequences of this failure.

[David Hansen]

On Sun, 9 Mar 2008 15:10:37 -0000 someone who may be "Tim Ward" wrote this:-

Current recommendations certainly amount to fairly thick insulation, if one uses fibreglass matting. However it is not impractical in most circumstances.

[Tim Ward]

Well, the downstairs lights heat the downstairs ceiling and most of this heat will find its way to the upstairs, which will save power from the heating system if the upstairs radiators have thermostatic valves.

The upstairs lights just heat the loft, assuming that you have the usual arrangement of lights at ceiling level and people at floor level. And, in particular, thermostatic radiator valves at floor level, so, no benefit from upstairs lighting.