Thank you Smart meter 2

[Dave Plowman (News]

Don't most have an on/off switch? ;-)

I do laugh at those ads for someone wandering round their house switching lights off and on with a mobile phone. ;-)

[Max Demian]

So you go hungry just to save money? Might as well become nocturnal to benefit from off-peak electricity.

[Tim+]

Eh? Why would you go that far unless you were really desperate?

We still have a gas hob and haven?t forgotten how to use it.

If that?s what floats your boat, go for it but there?s no need to go to extremes for most folk to make significant savings.

As I?ve said before, it?s not a tariff that would suit everyone but for those who have the ability (and the imagination) to be flexible with their electricity consumption, the Octopus Agile tariff has a lot going for it, especially if you?re an EV owner.

Tim

[Tim+]

But there is.

You can buy switches that will turn appliances on and off based on you current electricity tariff.

Tim

[bert]

My alarm bells start ringing whenever I see the word "savings". Calculation of promised savings is defined by Ofgem and relate to the amount you would pay if you stayed on your current supplier's standard variable contract at the end of your current deal. Suppliers and switching sites must abide by this rule. Claimed savings therefore are not realistically achievable but purely as a comparator between one offer and another.

[Tim+]

I don?t really care whether you believe in my savings or not, but if you understand how the tariff works and have had a look at the half hourly rates, you can easily see how large saving can be made if you have some sizeable loads that you can time shift.

Tim

[T i m]

<snip>

Don't forget it's Burk' you are talking to here, he very much has his own / special view on most things. ;-(

Which he won't ...

Which he won't ...

He couldn't ...

Quite, and why I made use of E7 for charging my electric car 30+ years ago. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[Dave Plowman (News]

Another good reason to use Flipper. Not in their interest to go to the effort of changing your suppliers if savings ain't real.

[Theo]

That makes sense to me, because that's where you'd end up if you did nothing. Your deal would end and you'd land on your supplier's variable tariff. They should calculate based on the time you have left - eg you have

4 months of a fixed tariff plus 8 months of variable tariff if you did nothing for a year, or 12 months of a new fixed tariff if you signed up today. They do offer you new deals at your current supplier on the same basis - ie the 'saving' isn't just for switching.

The 'saving' is thus based on your potential future trajectories, not what happened over the last year. It isn't useful to compare against last year because the wholesale price of energy when you signed up then is likely to be different to now.

(similarly the saving can't account for changes in variable tariffs, which would require predicting the future market)

Theo

[alan_m]

I assume that with this company offering the incentives it is at the top of your list for changing energy suppliers.

This type of scheme only works if a minority of energy users adopt it. As soon as the take-up gets to meaningful numbers there will not be the incentive of cheaper off-peak energy because there will not be an off peak.

With conventional electrical energy generation there may have been a benefit from a constant 24hour demand but these days we are entering the green revolution realms of all or nothing (without relying on gas, coal or nuclear) so perhaps the new norm is no electricity supply when the wind doesn't blow and the sun doesn't shine.

[alan_m]

Tim seems to be one of those people who harp back to the good old days where everything was rosy and the big monopoly companies didn't rip us off and provided excellence customer service. All things had a recommended retail price and every retailer stuck to it. He prefers to stick to these companies and ideas preferring the status quo to change without cast iron guarantees, but forgetting there is always change and no guarantees with existing establishments.

[alan_m]

+1 But the saving are real for some on this group who seem to claim to be on standard variable tariffs.

The inflated figures for switching year after year are unrealistic but the averts are mainly aimed at people who have never bothered to switch or perhaps those (include some people I know) who don't realise that these lower priced contracts end after a fixed time and the if nothing is done the tariff changes to something much more costly.

My local council promotes energy switching with one of the collective deals with a single energy company. In a letterbox leaflet drop for one of these schemes a local councillor endorses the scheme by saying that after years of paying for higher priced energy he joined the council scheme and saved £100s. My reaction to reading that was if he is incapable of managing his own savings for years what the F**k was he doing on a council managing our taxes.

[alan_m]

You had milk float?

[alan_m]

It can be miss-used by some suppliers to get you to switch to a more expensive tariff early.

You are on a fixed priced contact with 6 months to run and the supplier has a new more expensive fixed priced contract they will use the regulator's approved calculation to indicate that the more expensive tariff gives you a saving - which is probably untrue unless prices rise by 15%+ within the time period of the original 12 month contract.

Also be wary of early changing one BG contract with another BG contract

- they have habit of applying the early change penalty fee BUT it will not appear as an item on your bill but will appear on your bank statement as a separate charge. Other suppliers will state there is no charge for changing contracts if staying with the same company. Some suppliers have a zero fee for ending the contract early.

Note1: no exit fees can be applied if changing within a 49 day window at the end (before the end) of a contract when switching to another company.

Note2: There is a cooling off period of two weeks before a change will be officially processed so select your change 3+ weeks before your existing contract is due to end.

[Tim Streater]

People should ignore the supposed savings and calculate it for themselves.

[T i m]

<snip>

What, is that an impossible ask then these days?

I'm pretty sure that hasn't been the case ever.

Not 'cast iron', but just some reasonably good odds that the outcome is worth any risk.

Of course, like there is 'Jumping out of the frying pan, into the fire'. I'm guessing that if everything went smoothly for everyone there would be the need for an ombudsman, Watchdog, bailiffs or solicitors?

But they are a 'known', even if only 'right now' and I have more leverage with what I may have to do re a change than the changes I may have to do when swapping supplier.

'Fools rush in'?

But hey, thanks very much for the effort you have put into trying to save us a tiny percentage of our yearly outgoings.

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

Well, we did (between a mate and I) but I wasn't talking about that, I was talking about my Enfield 8000 'Moke' (that I've still got).

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

What about those who *are* on standard variable tariffs?

(He's not talking about me then).

It's what my BIL successfully did. He canvassed many of the people along his road asking 'If they were willing to switch to another supplier, would you if we could get the price down". Some couldn't (without saving canceling penalties), some CBA because they weren't on their uppers some didn't trust any such deal and others didn't understand.

I think he did present various suppliers the idea of being able to bring X new users (so those not already with the various suppliers) and I believe he got a deal and he and some of those interested, willing and able did indeed switch. And then of course the deal ran out and few CBA to go though it all again.

The point is, a net saving of a small overall amount (of their overall outgoings) really isn't worth the sort of effort / risk that is involved for many people.

Any maybe you should be happy that's the case, as the people paying the most are allowing the others to get the discount. If we all jumped on that bandwagon, the general prices would be higher.

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

<snip>

Yup ... and so if you want electricity when the grid isn't supplying any you will need your own Powerwall [1] (or draw power from your own electric car).

Cheers, T i m

[1] As a cousin has on the IOW.