strange problem with dawn to dusk sensor

Apr 20, 2018 4 Replies

Here's a letter I plan to send to Danlers. I just wondered if anyone here could cast any light on the problem before I send the letter.



We have a problem with the TWSW twilight switch which has us completely baffled. We had two of these items for a while. We got a replacement from CPC for the first one thinking that it was faulty, but didn?t immediately send it back.



Initially the first unit was installed to replace an existing item (bought from RS; expensive) that has been in place for many years but had failed. The location is on a north facing wall about 15ft above the ground. The unit installed normally and responded to the change of light. We were able to set up the Lux threshold correctly. However, the next morning the lighting was on in daylight. On examination the TWSW?s LED was lit, meaning that it should be holding the lighting off. We tried various things over the next few days but the problem persisted: the unit would still power the lighting after dawn, and would continue to power it all day.



The replacement unit was initially set up in a test rig on the bench, where it worked perfectly. We installed it in place of the first unit and the same fault occurred. However the fault was intermittent, and some mornings the lights would be switched off correctly. Wondering if the lighting load was to blame we tried the unit with a temporary load of a 100W tungsten lamp but with the unit still on the wall. The fault persisted. Incidentally the normal load is three 70W sodium lamps, six



10W LEDs, a 1A 12V psu, and four 17W CFLs.

We took the second unit off the wall in case the fixings had distorted the case and caused the fault but it made no difference. Concerned that the load might have damaged the units we tested them both on the bench and they both then worked perfectly, although we only took them through a few cycles, using the (very bright) room lights to simulate daylight. Without the lights the room is pitch black.



I then had the second unit on test indoors, looking out through an east-facing window so it could ?see? daylight. It worked fine for four days and nights.



Everything seems to point to a wiring fault, except that when the fault condition is present the units? LEDs are lit yet the switched line is still live. We are aware of the 30 second delay function. What could cause the LED to be lit yet leave the switched live output still permanently live? After the unit has failed to operate in this way we have found that brief power-cycling doesn?t make it work normally. When the power is restored it does the 30 sec thing but then the LED is on and so is the lighting. To get the unit to turn the lights off in daylight it seems to be necessary to leave it unpowered all day, and then power it before the light starts to fade. It will then turn the lighting off after 30 secs, and will turn it on again at dusk, but will sometimes malfunction as described at dawn. We did have a good run of three mornings with the second unit, and I thought the problem had somehow fixed itself, but then the fault started to occur again.



At first we thought the problem might be caused by the very low outdoor temperatures we?ve had here, but it persisted even when the weather improved.



We just can?t think of anything else to try. The units seem to work anywhere except on the north-facing wall, where they work sometimes. Have you had any reports of problems caused by strong RF fields? It?s a long shot but we have a low powered local radio transmitter 2km away to the north.



Bill


fine for four

Do they switch using relay or triac? Either way your 12v psu (if it's an smpsu) has a biggish capacitor on its i nput which will produce high peak currents at switch-on.

NT

I have a possible explanation which would need testing experimentally - the north facing wall has the slowest rate of change of brightness and lowest illumination. It may be slow enough especially at UK latitudes in summer to cause problems. Did it work OK on sunny or cloudy days? If it worked OK in spring but not summer that might be it.

Try doing a slow dim in the lab and see if you can get it into the broken state under controlled conditions with a dimmable light source (brightening over a period of a couple of hours).

It is a design fault if the unit can't sensibly drive its load if the rate of change of light is too slow but it is hard to see how it gets into a state where the "I see light" LED is on and the load is still powered (unless the drive to the power solid state relay is out of spec and the thing has latched up in a conducting state).

FWIW my cars automatic lights get foxed by the low winter sunshine in a similar sort of "not designed for high latitude" problem. Same with a lot of the garden LED lights which come on too early in the UK and have faded to nothing by the end of our very long twilight.

Not fully understanding this, but I was indeed thinking that the input from the actual sensor to the switching logic module could be effectively giving the on signal expected from the actual sensor. Whether mains borne stuff is getting to this line adding enough noise to make it trigger is hard to say. If those circuits are physically separate, some decoupling could be tried, but of course this would invalidate any warranty. if the whole thing is one big chip, them the only option is to attempt to power it from a really well filtered line making sure all paths in are using ferrites or some other method of filtering. I do know from experience some years ago, that a PIR battery light I modified to make an audio sound when motion was detected to help me find my back gate also malfunctioned when a guy nearby used his mobile phone. This was unexpected and to my mind makes me suspect a high impedance input somewhere in the tiny module. I never did fix it. Brian

There's an audible click then the 30 sec pause, then the lights go on/off.

Yes. There's a big inrush. A big spark!

Bill

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