selling a poorly house in the 21st century

[Chris Holmes]

Hi All,

My wife and brother in law are charged with selling a 200 year old ?cottage? which had some ?updating? (cavity walls, inside toilet and a few

13A sockets in the 1970s and has had GFCH and solar panels added about 20 years ago.

None of us have sold a property for about 20 years.

What?s new?

I believe (if my brother in law manages to empty it) they will have to get an energy rating certificate (which I assume will give it a crap rating).

Other than that, is there anything new they are required to do?

As an aside, when the solar and associated gubbins (to allow selling excess to the grid) we?re fitted, would it have been incumbent on the sparky to insist that other parts of the installation were upgraded? (Eg, fit modern CU and / or whole house RCD (20 years ago, and / or replace the lead sheathed lighting cables (I don?t know how much if any of this has been done (not much I think) and I suspect it?s a case of two Jews, three opinions (ie some sparkys would say it?s mandatory, some would say nowt)?

[The Natural Philosopher]

Ultimately a house is what it is, and all this fussing over whether or not it meets this reg or that reg is legal bollocks designed to increase legal fees and drive the sale price down *after* an agreement has been made between vendor and buyer.

If it isn't to modern spec or its spec is unknown, *insure* the spec.

Then if it is worth the buyer actually suing you for mis representation it is covered.

But notionally the buyer is responsible for his own survey and *caveat emptor* rules. There are simply a few areas where you are required to have a survey done, and 'energy efficiency' is one of them.

Estate agents or conveyancing lawyers are the people to ask.

But in general if the answer is 'haven't a clue about wiring and can't determine it because its buried in the walls' you are AIUI legally in the clear, because you haven't misrepresented the data, merely drawn attention to its (reasonable) lack.

The buyer will probably be unable to get house insurance without a total rewire in such cases anyway. Most people who buy a house than hasn't had much dine to it in 50 years will gut it rewire it re plumb it, re plaster it, redecorate it and probably extend it anyway.

[Martin Brown]

It is one of the areas where semi literate tick box morons rule! When I sold my parents house (which was double glazed throughout) they marked it down for having one single glazed window in the north facing larder!

The questionnaires are tedious but fairly straightforward to fill in.

It should be sufficient to state that the electric supply is as seen and old style fuse box. If the electricity company engineers touched it at all the may well replace the main fuse with a 20A one. That is what they threatened to do to my friend in a similar situation - he still has round pin plugs in a ring main untouched since 1950's original build.

Not surprisingly he therefore declined to have a smart meter fitted. It wouldn't have worked anyway since we are in a mobile phone notspot.

That seems to be the MO of most buyers of such properties. It is certainly what they did to my parents house (and I don't blame them).

[Fredxx]

But may also give a 'potential' rating if the requisite work is done.

No. As long as you make an accurate disclosure, or 'not known' on the relevant forms I would say you're covered. Your solicitor will assist.

Any work would be optional, and only economically worthwhile if it is likely to raise the value of the property where the work is done before sale.

Some mortgage companies may refuse a mortgage on properties not fit for habitation or a fire risk from wiring, which would limit the potential clientele. If it is suitable for first time buyers it may be more worthwhile.

[Owain Lastname]

If it's in Scotland, smoke detector will be needed

Only to a very minimal level - usually checking a main earth is present. And that was 20 years ago.

I assume this is a probate sale - which is an advantage as the executors can truthfully answer Not Known to just about everything on the form.

Owain

[alan_m]

But if declared as not compliant would the responsibility be on the seller or the buyer to fit?

[Owain Lastname]

Seller (from Feb 2022).

Compliance or non-compliance will be declared on the Home Report survey and the seller is the owner of the house at that time.

This is actually about the only form of enforcement there is, at the moment, for owner-occupiers; I don't see local councils prosecuting many people discovered with non-compliant smoke detectors after a call-out by the fire service as this would be seen as heartless, and the fire service would probably regard it as a deterrent to being called out.

Owain

[Vir Campestris]

200 years old. Is it Listed, or in a Conservation Area?

Andy

[alan_m]

If I was a buyer I would not want a last minute bodge by a seller - nor maybe a solution that meets regulation but not the best for the property.

[Owain Lastname]

Neither would I, but we're not entirely typical of the population.

At least this way it ensures there will be a minimum provision on moving-in day and it's an improvement on what most people probably have or would even consider.

Owain

[Andrew]

Just sell it at auction. Let the auction house do the hard work. You will relieve yourself of a whole lot of grief and get your money in 28 days.

[Fredxx]

At a nominal 30% loss wrt market rate.

I would get a couple of estate agents round to give guidance of value with and without work done.

[alan_m]

Or just put it up for sale in the "normal" way. If it has insulation and solar panels it's not probably in the auction basket case category. People will buy properties for renovation especially if they are in the right location.

[Andrew]

Err, no you get what the 'market' thinks it is worth, as opposed to the usual stupid greed of the female of the house, layered on top of lying, shifty tiemwasting buyers and duplititious estate agents

[Andrew]

You need to watch Homes under the Hammer every day on BBC1. Not all the properties are 'basket' case. Far from it. As always, Location Location, Location rules the roost. Anywhere in the South of England or parts of Wales and it will sell the normal way (eventually) despite being stupidly overpriced because there plenty of idiot females who will happily pay over the odds.

But the further north you go the more difficult it will be and the longer it takes. It sounds like this is an executor sale. This means the estate agent will pass this information on to ALL the buyers and they will all play the waiting game, watching for a price reduction to see who blinks first. Then there will be the sneaky buyers who will make an offer but on the day that contracts are to be exchanged, suddenly find a reason to reduce their offer. Then what ?.

[Theo]

It's much more difficult to get a mortgage on an auction property (because the mortgagee wants to value it before agreeing, but you don't know whether you'll be successful or what the sale price will be). So any property which is not targeted at cash buyers (eg BTL landlords) may be at a disadvantage.

Of course if time is of the essence (eg probate sale) then auction does go through quicker with more certainty of completion. But you pay for it.

Theo

[Theo]

AIUI they can't modify something that's not compliant without bringing it up to standard, but they don't have to redo everything they aren't touching. For example if they're fitting an extra circuit that circuit needs to be RCD protected, but they don't need to retrofit RCDs to the whole house.

My guess for a solar install they would have fitted a second CU and teed off the feed from the meter. The secondary CU would meet regs, the meter would meet regs, the Henley blocks teeing the supply would meet regs, but the rest of the install can be ignored as they aren't touching that. The situation has not been made any more risky by their work.

Theo (IANA electrician)

[Theo]

Grab a copy of the TA6 and TA10 forms:

That's what your conveyancer will ask you to fill in. Work through them answering the questions with the knowledge you have. That way you'll be prepared for what the buyer will ask, and have whatever documents you need available or an alternative plan ready.

You could commission an EICR to identify any major faults, which would tell you where you stand. You'd have to disclose it to the buyer, but it could be useful (a bit like a list of MOT failures, better to know what it failed on than a car with unknown faults).

Theo

[Fredxx]

Quite, such a sale excludes many potential buyers that would normally buy with a mortgage.

[Fredxx]

The market is very different if you sell through an agent, or through auction house.