Scottish property system

Oh, well. Bye, then!

MM

'Fraid so! The first buyer has welshed on the deal as far as I'm concerned. Were I to accept his revised (lower) offer, who's to say he won't come back a week or two later and try it on again?

Until I find *the* buyer who keeps to the letter of the agreement to purchase (I assume a buyer has to put his moniker on *some*thing to assert his genuineness).

Like I said, it would sort out the time wasters.

Keep the system as it is, i.e. an asking price is stated, not an Offers Over price. But add a legal commitment to purchase, exactly as happens at auction, by demanding a deposit from the buyer when an offer is made.

Better than the Scottish system, however.

But you were the one who suggested the idea of having some external body to police, or dictate, a price! No, it is entirely up to the vendor *what* price he asks for at the end of the day, but I maintain that the price stated must be the actual price the vendor wants. This is not rocket science! If I stuck an ad in the paper to sell a piano, saying "offers accepted", and you came by and made an offer and I said, no, sorry, it's not high enough, bye! And you were not allowed to make a higher offer, well, you'd feel pretty put out, wouldn't you!

Well if I haven't agreed another offer, then there isn't a problem, is there! Also, in terms of "unlikely to happen", this scenario is about as likely as my finding fairies at the bottom of my garden.

Are you taking the mick? ;)

Actually, I had a lady around this morning, who seem very interested. But I expect she has by now been sucked up into the sky by the Giant Vortex, never to be seen or heard of again. Such a shame.

MM

Sorry, no can do. That's not how we do things here, I'm afraid. You're asking me to cheat the first, committed buyer out of his future home, for heck's sake!

I don't know why you are so down on solicitors, as they are only doing a job and not charging a great deal in relation to the value of the property. Mine will be charging a fixed price (hee hee!) of £300 plus VAT.

Legally it can. But there are some laws of the jungle that no legislation can override or excuse. That's why we shake hands on a deal, or promise to pay the bearer, or agree to buy a property.

The vendor must do this *before* accepting the offer. Otherwise it's no wonder if the buyer then turns out to be a time waster. I believe there are Ways and Means to establish the bona fides of a genuine offer.

One offer I had was 20 grand below the asking price. That ain't close!

MM

Er, what do you think "Ultimately, of course, the Office of Fair Trading could step in and take legal action against miscreants." means? Or do you suppose The Scotsman is just making it up?

MM

That's a lottery, not competition.

Yes, we are. Even The Scotsman said so. Here is another quote from that article: "One solution would be to adopt the English system of open bidding, which at least has the advantage of every potential buyer seeing the market price they have to beat."

See? Other people see it the way I do.

Salmon do it all the time.

MM

Here is the dictionary meaning of cheat, cheating, etc:

1. To deceive by trickery; swindle: cheated customers by overcharging them for purchases.
2. To deprive by trickery; defraud: cheated them of their land.
3. To mislead; fool: illusions that cheat the eye.

Tell me which bit you don't understand and I'll try to explain it.

MM

In message , Mike Mitchell writes

Was that £20K below the current asking price? Or a previous one?

Is it possible that, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, it might be the "value" in the current market. It's only 10% below your asking price.

Seems like it!

How does that happen that the seller under the English system is taking advantage? Note that the title of this thread is "Scottish property system" and that is the one you ought to be concerned about. Although the English system is far from ideal, at least buers can see what the prices are up front and can compete fairly. It's stability I want to see, not gazumping/gazundering as a national pastime because people think it's a clever thing to do in a dog-eat-dog world.

MM

Yes, but under the Scottish sealed bids system, they refuse your offer and, get this, they won't allow you to make another! It's the silly season 24/7/365 over the border...

MM

He isn't committed to any degree at all until exchange of contract so no cheating is involved. I already made the point that he can be appraised of the situation and invited to rebid. That's perfectly reasonable. The first potential buyer has the option to push his solicitor along and get a contract in place pretty quickly, so the time window can be short.

In terms of doing a good job and more to the point, expeditiously, they do not rank highly at all. The notion of urgency is not in their vocabulary.

You have no idea whether the buyer is genuine in his offer or whether other circumstances will overtake him and prevent him completing the offer - even with the best will in the world. I know somebody who was buying and selling and after they had made an offer their house burned down.

This is why we have written legal procedures to cover transfer of property. "Laws of the jungle" in this respect really don't help. If you feel you want to be very honourable and do deals on a handshake, that's fine, but it's foolish, because you can't control all the circumstances on your side and certainly not those of the other party. It is therefore much better to make the buying and selling an arm's length arrangement and go no further on commitments than implied by the legal process. This may sound cold, but it's honest and everybody knows where they stand. In the long run, people won't get hurt either.

This is impractical. There can be any number of reasons why a buyer (even a well intentioned one) pulls out. In a rising market, you may be able to ask for various credentials. In a falling one, you'll piss the buyers off. In your current situation, I wouldn't even think about it.

It might be. That may represent what that person feels is a fair value for your property. You won't know until you get some others.

It is possible that the house was put on the market for a way inflated price by the agents in the first place, on the offchance that a bite will happen. Have you compared with other nearby properties?

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

... and look what happens to them in the end when they get there.

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

I understand all of these perfectly, but no cheating is taking place. There is nothing wrong with a vendor legally maximising his sale price by inviting multiple bidders. The deal isn't closed until the paperwork is signed so how can cheating have happened.?

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Forget it. This is just a name that has been applied in the property market by wishful thinkers who think that it's somehow unnatural. It isn't. It is simply short term price adjustment in a rapidly heating or cooling market. Houses are a commodity, and like any other commodity subject to the natural laws of the market. That may not suit some people, but it's the way things are.

If you feel uncomfortable with the stock market you don't buy and sell in it. If you feel uncomfortable with the property market, don't buy and sell in that. It really isn't difficult.

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Mike Mitchell" wrote | >You can make somebody an offer for anything, all they can do | >is refuse, the RRP is after all only a recommendation. | Yes, but under the Scottish sealed bids system, they refuse | your offer and, get this, they won't allow you to make another!

It is always possible that the seller rejects all the offers and requests new offers. But he'd be daft to, as psychologically people who've had one offer refused are unlikely to be willing to make another one.

| It's the silly season 24/7/365 over the border...

That's why we don't have gazumping, gazundering, chains collapsing, negative equity, etc etc. We also don't have the abomination of leasehold flats, and our public land registry predates England's by a few centuries.

Owain

The message from "RichardS" contains these words:

Yes, that can be a problem. As things stand, though, it's the only way (unless you are a cash purchasor and sufficently knowledgeable/confident in the building, to bid without a survey).

I know

There are moves afoot here to do the same, with the same reservations. Another, is that here, different purchasers choose between three different levels of survey at three different price levels (the bottom one is basic, just a valuation). The "one survey for all" would obviously have to be the most thorough and expensive one; so if the purchaser was paying for it, some purchasers would still end up paying more for the one survey than they would have done if they'd bought their own in the first place.

Yes, the day the money, ownership and keys change hands.

No, because after the simultaneous opening of the blind bids, the vendor only proceeds with one of them, the chosen buyer. Good lawyers don't charge their clients for failed bids.

and also lock out the purchasor from putting in bids for other

No, you're pretty tied in (unless your lawyer finds some dire fault in the property title.) Bidding for another property or casually pulling out during the exchange of missives, is the equivalent of simultaneously proposing to two fiancees, or failing to turn up at the altar :~}

Janet.

, Mike Mitchell

I think you will have to face up to the fact that if you still have not sold your house, it is overpriced. Now with a market starting to fall, you may wish you had accepted that offer.

No. They were trying it on. A builder...

MM

Yes. Mine's the cheapest. By far.

MM

MM