I've just installed a new Wickes kitchen and I'm disappointed that both the 800 wide wall unit bottoms sag noticeably in the centre (between the two s ides) when loaded with an ordinary loads of tins or plates. The sag is abou t 10mm in the centre and is noticeable as it sags below the front lower edg e of the doors.
I probably will raise it with them but expect to be fobbed off with 'they'r e not meant for heavy loads' crap so am looking for a fall back diy solutio n.
My options appear to be;
1/ a long vertical M6 stud and nuts, from above the top to below the bottom , very unsightly, maybe 6mm rod with just ends threaded might look ok.
2/ cut another shelf to lay directly on the bottom and help support it
3/ attach another layer below the bottom. I've noticed they use beefy 15mm trims on showroom units but thought they were cosmetic only and they only g o back about 100mm, so the back would still sag.
Weirdly the internal shelves being thicker ~18mm don't sag at all whereas t he frame top and bottom being thinner ~14mm do sag.
Two questions; is this normal on mid priced units, and is there a better te chnical solution?
I'm advised by SWMBO that redistributing stuff is not an option.
he 800 wide wall unit bottoms sag noticeably in the centre (between the two sides) when loaded with an ordinary loads of tins or plates. The sag is ab out 10mm in the centre and is noticeable as it sags below the front lower e dge of the doors.
're not meant for heavy loads' crap so am looking for a fall back diy solut ion.
om, very unsightly, maybe 6mm rod with just ends threaded might look ok.
m trims on showroom units but thought they were cosmetic only and they only go back about 100mm, so the back would still sag.
the frame top and bottom being thinner ~14mm do sag.
technical solution?
Screw the bendy bit to the wall at the back, either with a neat strip of wo od or a white plastic block. If you show details of this saggy area there a re other neat options. If you don't mind posting your sagginess in public.
You don't say whether the cupboard is MDF or chip, and what the surface finish is inside the cupboard. But assuming its white the simplest solution would be a central divider made out of
15mm white melamine faced chip. You only need a finished edge on one side the edge facing outward. Cut and then trimmed to fit. While its still a good tight fit, meaure up and mark its centre line on the outside of the top and the base. Drill through with say a 3mm pilot through the top and base into the divider. Contrary to popular belief even 15mm chipboard can be satisfactorily screwed together using screws and plastic plugs providing the right size plugs (almost invariably the shortest) drill bit, drilling depth and screws are used. (Best found by experiment unless written down on a piece of paper, or in a notebook which hasn't subsequently been lost)
Using the 3mm pilot holes as locators in the divider, drill appropriate size holes and fit plugs. Widen the holes the top and base and assemble.
This would be second best. I only say this because this solution would be adding more weight to the bottom of the cabinet. And possibly these these are so "economically made" in terms of materials that adding more weight in this way might compromise the overall construction. Basically if it sags in the way does, who's to say it the sides might not start straining at the joints as well ?
Basically IMO anything which alters the outside appearance of the unit is unacceptable. Not that alterations of this kind should be necessary in the first place. Quite possibly the technical specifications of these particular Wickes units specify a maximum loading
- not that you'd ever know about them until their "customer services" suddently spring to life and draw them to your attention. But even then these limits might be expected to be reasonable.
IMO on the information you've provide you're entitled to a full refund as these particular units aren't fit for purpose. Using 14mm as opposed to 18mm IMO seems like needless pennypinching which will save pennies per unit if that. More especially as machines will need to be specially reset . Basically its much easier if a whole shop is set to 18mm as there's less scope for mistakes etc.
This is an interesting conundrum and provides an excuse to visit a Wickes in the near future armed with a tape measure and an enquiring mind.
Ironically the 1000 units are fine because they have a central pillar to support the shelf, the 800 units don't hence the problem.
Thanks Moron Watch, will probably try the divider suggestion next, do you mean wall plugs when you mention 'plastic plugs'? I was wondering about drilling a longish 3mm hole then whacking in some 5 or 6 mm self tappers. Would plastic plugs be stronger?
So stay away from the cheap end of the market. We replaced wall mounted units with shelves between inward facing walls (reveales?) The shelves are 1650x350x40mm supported be battens in groves in the shelf edges, so invisible. No sag. Cheap replacement. Easy access to plates etc. on the shelf.
Yes plastic plugs. I've used the yellow ones in the past for horizontal rather than load bearing joints. Just the standard cheap strips fromToolstation etc. On the strips there are recommended ranges for screw and drill sizes. From memory I used the smallest drill size and the largest screw size. Testing this out on scraps before proceeding any further and adjusting as necessary. Providing the hole is plumb in the middle of the edge you should be ok. If your pilot is near to one edge just resite it in the middle. Its always possible to use longer plugs, reds and browns to accommodate longer thin gauge screws, Though the recommended screw and drill sizes will maybe need to be ignored. Again a bit of experimenting with scraps should give the right combination.
A whole industry since the 1930's has been based on the supposition that the sideways force exerted by a close fitting plug of any kind into any material will be superior to that obtainable with a bare thread. Which doesn't necessarily mean that self tappers might not work providing they were long enough. only that plugs using the appropriate size drill and screw should provide a stronger solution.
he 800 wide wall unit bottoms sag noticeably in the centre (between the two sides) when loaded with an ordinary loads of tins or plates. The sag is ab out 10mm in the centre and is noticeable as it sags below the front lower e dge of the doors.
're not meant for heavy loads' crap so am looking for a fall back diy solut ion.
om, very unsightly, maybe 6mm rod with just ends threaded might look ok.
m trims on showroom units but thought they were cosmetic only and they only go back about 100mm, so the back would still sag.
the frame top and bottom being thinner ~14mm do sag.
technical solution?
One way is to replace high load shelves with a bit of thick plywood. Painted white.
That's normally the *first* thing I put up when fitting wall cabinets. Then it is a one-man job to hang them. I add cup hooks every two inches or so, for hanging kitchen spoons, sieves, peelers, etc.
Not trivial for "entry level" DIYers. A simpler option is an 18 mm aluminium angle along the edge of the shelf. But as posted elsewhere I find that a batten along the wall normally provides enough support to the bottom shelf.
Agreed, with one provision. (This is rather like a Multi Monti but designed for chipboard, for those not familiar: it has a relatively large parallel core, requiring a suitable pilot hole, and a thin helical thread). But they are really designed for T-joints, where the screw goes through the thickness of one part, then into the edge of another.
I would have said that the right screw to fix an alloy angle along an edge is either a 4 x 3/4 every four inches or so, or a 6 x 2 perhaps every 9 inches. Depending on which way you want to fit them. Short, crosswise are less conspicuous, but need more of them so more work.
Countersunk head, with the strip drilled and countersunk to suit. Ordinary Quicksilver will work, Turbo Gold type arguably better if you go the 6 x 2 route. (Metric equivalents would be fine).
On Wednesday, December 28, 2016 at 12:59:39 PM UTC, simon mitchelmore wrote :
all units and I have larger than average loads of tins and plates.
support the shelf, the 800 units don't hence the problem.
No, the 1000 units do it too: it just takes another few weeks for it to be come apparent. The pelmet doesn't help either. Ours was one of their mid-r ange, in-store kitchens. Don't know if the top end ones are more reliable. Wickes stuff is usually OK and their kitchens have been recommended on he re several times but I wouldn't buy another one. The kitchen in the previo us house came from the late MFI and was (surprisingly) far superior.
I've asked various builders/kitchen fitters who they'd recommend and the th ree names that come up are Howdens, Magnet and diy-kitchens.com
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