Renovating sash windows

[Tim Decker]

I know this is a subject that has been discussed at length on this group in the past, but reading some of the old postings it seemed to often descend into slagging matches between various people.

I have just done the first 3 of my sash windows (another 14 to go). These were in a terrible state with a real danger that if the glass was cleaned from inside then the glass would have fallen out, due to most of the putty having cracked off. Just to clarify, these are slidey up and down windows, as I recall some earlier argument that all windows were in fact sash windows!

I have now replaced the putty using acrylic putty from a tube. I have tried using linseed putty in the past, but couldn't seem to get it right. So at the moment I am quite pleased with the ease of using this from a tube and the speed with which this could be painted. I have to say that I couldn't seem to get a definitive answer from past postings, but I came to the conclusion that as I couldn't get on with traditional putty and the new stuff could be painted much quicker that was what I would go with. It will be interesting to see the results in 5 years time. Thoughts?

The other thing that surprised me was how good condition the wood was in. Despite being unpainted for at least 3 years there was hardly any rot. I suppose that 100 years ago, they used some very good timber.

I am now determined to fix one of my downstairs windows that needs a new sash cord. Next spring I will do a proper job and remove the sash. Now this has got some rot and is going to require some TLC. I have been using Wickes wood hardener,

a litre. but figured there might be a cheaper generic alternative. Any ideas?

I also intended to do a full draft proofing. I have been looking at Mighton, who seem very good, but again I would welcome any tips for alternatives that might be cheaper.

Any further ideas or new thinking on the subject woiuld be appreciated.

Thanks Tim

[Bruce]

My grandfather always used "Swedish putty" which was made with gloss paint rather than, or in addition to, linseed oil. It gave a finished appearance from Day 1, however he used to put a coat of gloss paint over it a few weeks later.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

If your house is similar to others in the area look out for new windows being installed and get an old one of the same size - you can then use bits of it to repair yours. The actual construction of the window and frame is pretty straightforward - and if you have similar bits you can use those to repair the rot in yours.

[mail]

Dear Tim I have done this professionally for over 30 years and as an amateur for 40! A few bon mots may be useful. I, too, was initially impressed with the acrylic "putty" when I first came across it about 10 years ago - seemed to be the bee's knees but recently came across an interesting problem with it. I used it about 7 years ago on a SW facing fixed (ie a sash window lookalike fixed into place where there is no room for cords) side sash in a 3 window bay where only the centre window opens. All seemed well for a few years but I noticed in the last couple of years that in driving rain water percolates through the apparently totally sound and well painted joint a the bottom! It only does it when there is a right old gale. There is no evidence of any defect (the window was recently painted. I have concluded that it is the material of the joint - acrylic putty - probably at the interface with the wood and glass that is at fault. I have reverted back to good old linseed oil putty and whereever I have there have been no problems. To do this with proper putty, try the following: get a decent large tub of the pukka stuff, dig out a tennis ball sized lump and kneed it really well for several minutes till it has ceased to stick to your hands (really messy!) and is stiff but malleable. Prepare the surface of the sash by removing all old traces of putty and applying firstly a coat of preservative in OS (eg Cuprinol 5 star) paying particular attention to end grain and joints - dip overnight if necessary. Prime with Dulux Weathersheild green primer one light coat to the rough surface of the rebate for the glass (if necessary roughen it up with sand paper first). Roll your putty out into your thumb in a "tube" from the base of your palm and press it into the right angle gap of the recess such that there is an excess but not much of one on the "indside" of the sash. Put in the glass and put in four or so copper (not steel or iron) nails (not coppered as that is iron with copper covering) nails using a panel pin hammer and lots of care. Ensure you get the angle right so as not to pressurise the glass as it goes in. Once safely pressed into the final place - about 2mm of putty on the inside - apply the outside putty with the thumb to being just a surplus. This will come with experience. If it helps an amateur trick would be to roll out a long thin roll and squeze it in but thumb and experience is better. now get a tool to squeeze in and shape the putty. I use a combination of a special rubberish German shapig tool that is basically a square with a corner cut off to allow access to the corners and also a 1" chisel. Others use putty knives or any sharp edge that does the job. Be bold and once started go for it all the way down to the end! If you do it vertically and right the squezed off bead is easy to collect with a rolled up ball of putty. Let it set for a day or two before painting normally with primer under and gloss. Wooden repairs. Unquestionably the best product for this is Windowcare resin used as a glue to put in suitably pressure treated replacement timber. Chris

[Trevor Smith]

You might be lucky and find some the same size, I have sash windows in the back of my 1900's terrace and horrid wooden replacements at the front, these being fitted into the original sash boxes. I have looked around for sash windows as I would love to reinstate them but as the windows in my house all differ in size it is a struggle. I have come to the opinion that when the houses were built, the windows were made on site to fit the hole the builder made. Trevor Smith

[Dave Plowman (News)]

What I was trying to say was that old windows from the same estate can often be used to repair yours - not used as complete replacements. May well mean cutting and jointing some parts - but this is often easier than trying to make new - and you'll be using the same sort of timber.

[Trevor Smith]

I'm with you now, and the point about the same timber is a good one as modern wood is not a patch on the wood they used on the original windows, hence why I am reluctant to make new frames. Trevor Smith

[PeterMcC]

'cos they don't know that it's spelled "practise" when they do it?

Sorry, the pedantry just swept over me.

[sm_jamieson]

A few more :- Why is it called "theatre of war" ? Why do estate agents have "4 bedrooms TO the first floor" instead of "on the first floor" ? Why do BBC pronounce "New Orleans" New Orlee-uns, when the folks living there pronounce it "New Orlins" ? Simon.

[fred]

In article , Tim Decker writes

I've not been a fan of Mighton stuff in the past, thought their new generation seals were a bit gimmicky and over priced but I see they now have traditional wooden beads with built-in brush seals which I think is a better solution.

I was going to suggest Reddiseals too:

for range of stock but they're looking a bit pricey when compared with Mighton's traditional beads.

Get them ready primed of course, if you're painting.

I've still to find a guaranteed fix for sealing the meeting rails, there always seems to be some sort of 'fix' required.

[stuart noble]

Acrylic putty has the advantage that it doesn't rely on an oil based coat of paint applied several days later. I've never had problems with it, but I don't see it on the shelves these days. If you want to work on windows through the winter, just reverse the sashes and put a couple of nails in to support the top one. It means you get the mess on the inside, but at least you're not depending on the weather, and it's a nice working height too. £14 a litre isn't that awful if it has a reasonable solids content and is a 2 part system (can't tell from the website). Fibreglass resin works well, especially in conjunction with car body filler. I've never found a good way to draughtproof sliding sashes that doesn't make them more difficult to open and close. Repositioning the staff bead on the inside can make a big difference but the problem is usually the gap between the parting bead and the top sash, which is difficult to rectify.

[will]

Hi,

Just thought id chip in. Check out 'Timberbuild' its a fantastic epoxy product. ideal for bonding new timber in and gap, crack and repair work. Ive been working on my sash windows too. Ive found this to be a really robust product. I thoroughly recommend using formers where possible to form the epoxy into shape. Makes finishing fare easier!

Regards,

will.

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