Re: Result!

[The Older Gentleman]

Ah. Curses. Rumbled. I bow to your superiority.

[The Older Gentleman]

It's a generally accepted indication of success, in the same way that making a record loss is a generally indication of failure. But carry on with your own interpretation if it makes you feel superior.

You are making yourself look more foolish with every post, did you know that?

I'm not the one having problems here.

[The Older Gentleman]

Yum, Colombian coffee. This year's trip there, scheduled for early April, has just been cancelled, dammit. Still got about half a kilo of their coffee[1] left, though.

[1] Yes, coffee. Got that?

[The Older Gentleman]

Agree here. They also have a very nice range of bottled beers. And as someone else pointed out recently, their top private label gin is excellent.

We haven't got a Waitrose near us, but we order our fish direct (from a company called Regal) so it's no big deal.

That reminds me! I wonder how Moses Mohammed is getting on....

Agree.

[Steve Firth]

Now that problem I do recognise, but I don't think the answer is to discount much less to sell at less than cost. My wife has been approached several times by bigger concerns who want to buy the brand and packaging but to fill cheap substitutes into the bottles. AFAIC either people will recognise that the food is good and buy it for that reason or we give up.

Once you can get people to try the product sales usually boom quickly. That's where Lidl/Aldi have a problem because the few things I have tried from their shops taste awful. Very obviously price engineered products and as previously mentioned much of their meat products taste rancid.

[Andy Hall]

You mean it's got worse?

[SteveH]

Aldi alone have more than 3%, depending on which figures you look at. Generally, it seems they have over 6% of the market.

Not far off, though, I'll give you that.... however, they're not in the market to buy themselves market share, for a whole multitude of reasons.

You appear to know nothing about this, other than what you can get from google.

I have coming up to 15 years experience of this sector.

Oh, that'll be why they've been growing profits for the past 2 years, then, and are on track for another year of growth? - not to mention the continually expanding estate.

They're not here to challenge Tesco for market share, they're here to become the no. 1 secondary shop.

Aldi will have over 400 branches by the end of the year and are rapidly becoming the default 'local convenience shop' for large proportions of the population.

[Andy Hall]

I can imagine that it costs vast sums and takes a great deal of time.

Of course not.

Wake up.

People don't just buy on price. If that's what you're doing then I'd start loking for the next job now, because you are going to fail.

People buy on brand value and their perception of reputation. You can't build the latter quickly, no matter how much money you throw at it.

Their market share figures remain flat and have done for ten years with very small variations.

They are even more irrelevant than Aldi and Lidl in the UK market.

[SteveH]

That was one thing that didn't really change - they recognised that the BWS buying team at Safeway was the best in the industry and left them well alone.

[The Older Gentleman]

This is utter, utter nonsense. Nine out of ten grocery trade products (food and drink) fail in the market.

[SteveH]

Yes, probably because the whole market has been growing and evolving in that time - although they're rapidly expanding their estate, so is everyone else. Plus, Tesco, Asda and to a lesser extent, Sainsburys have been actively buying market share by refitting stores with massive non-food offerings.

It would be more interesting and appropriate to compare food market share, but I don't beleive anyone breaks the figures down in such a way.

The Germans are here to stay. They may have a lot to learn, but they

*are* learning and *do* have the stamina and committment to make it work.

[The Older Gentleman]

Four hundred outlets in about 15 years? That's terrible. No wonder they're failing. When they reach 500, I'll know their business model is crap ;-)

[The Older Gentleman]

Now that I didn't know.

[Andy Hall]

I was referring to incessant discounting.

Take a look at their web site. You might be surprised at this week's special offers.

On the home page, I can see them offering Taxi Caramel Wafers and Flora

2 for 1. (aka BOGOF)

Click the Show All Offers button. Now we have Robinsons squash, 3 for 2

You were saying?

[Andy Hall]

I do.

However, that's their issue, and not mine. I was not a Safeway shareholder either.

[Fran]

Fair enough, I'm misremembering the overall picture in that case. Ascribe it to failing memory.

[Andy Hall]

Please explain their press releases and stated aim of growing to 12% in the next few years.

All relative. They sold off much of their empire to M&S previously.

Lovely. I'm not interested in "secondary shops".

Where?

So they're trying to compete with Spar? They could probably just about manage that.

[The Older Gentleman]

What losses were these, then?

[Andy Hall]

I don't doubt their commitment. However, to date their strategy hasn't worked unless of course they are happy with poodling along as they have been.

[Fran]

I think the problem here is that you are arguing from a position of working in the industry with someone - Hall - who patently does not.