Re: New BBC soap: Bert Coules?

It doesn't matter what I think its the fools that vote for him that matter.

Yes this is very typical remain arguments.

It always starts with the bus. "We send the EU £350 million a week let's fund the NHS instead. Vote Leave Let's take back control."

Oh yes a massive lie that. Do you believe it would have made any difference had the figure said £100M /week? I don't, I think both are unimaginably large sums of money. It also did not promise to spend

Now can you list these other lies that leave told and then we go over the utter trash we've had from remain for over 3 years day after day.

How many were we promised would be unemployed by now if we voted leave? How much borrowing, house prices etc. etc but Leave were the liars.

Hmmm.

Then we can talk about tea towels with dead people's faces on them and claiming remain would now win because the horrid old people had been dying. Yes, Remain were grand.

Judge says our bus was OK.

Remain lies about just voting to leave proved by living it to be a total ^%^%)(&. What they claimed didn't happen.

Bob.

In message <GOYZE.1788881$ snipped-for-privacy@fx12.am, Indy Jess John snipped-for-privacy@OMITblueyonder.co.uk> writes: []

That is often said, but I've not seen any proof. (Mind you, I haven't looked for any, either.)

It was noticeable that just after our referendum result, the bureaucracy of the EC did make moves to increase the difficulty for other countries to leave. Such activity died down subsequently, and I don't know if it actually reached any implementation.

I can't help thinking there is at least some truth in that. If we were to stay in, our relations would be considerably more strained with our fellow members, due to harsh things that have been said in the past three years (on both sides - of the channel, I mean). If we leave, the same applies: basically it'll take a long time for things to cool, whatever we do.

I think that's correct; most EU citizens probably aren't that bothered what the percentage was, only the result. In the same way, from a greater distance, most Iranians currently probably think of us as Americans, even though our views on Iran are considerably different to the USA's.

John

In message snipped-for-privacy@sick-of-spam.invalid, Bob Latham snipped-for-privacy@sick-of-spam.invalid writes: []

It was, in the interpretation a lot of people put on it, a BIG lie. (But see below.)

That's one of two points that tend to get overlooked:

1. Had it been closer to the net value (about 100m is it?), I doubt that would have made much difference to those who voted leave for reasons of just the money. (Had it even been half the true value, I still don't think it'd have made much difference. 350, 100, and 50m are all figures too big for most people - including me - to grasp easily.)
2. That wasn't the only reason many voted leave.

It certainly strongly implied it though!

Both sides have been extremely dishonourable. []

I'm sure only on some very narrow interpretation, such as it showed a true figure but for the _gross_ contribution, not _net_. (But see above for whether it would have actually made much difference.) []

In message snipped-for-privacy@sick-of-spam.invalid, Bob Latham snipped-for-privacy@sick-of-spam.invalid writes: []

I presume you think you can weather the period of hardship, and that we'll _eventually_ be better off. I'm the same (I hope), but I _do_ understand the viewpoint of those who, say, are just keeping their heads above water, possibly with young families and mortgage to support, who may or may not think we'd be better off in the long run, but _don't_ think they could survive the intervening period. They have to protect their families.

A cheap dig - the names of political parties lose their original meaning fairly quickly; you only have to look at America - I don't think many would claim that the Democrats are monarchists, or that the Republicans are undemocratic. []

Bet Boris does.

That?s a lie too with being able to do whatever the govt chooses to do regardless of what the EU thinks about that.

Another lie.

Blundering Boris has the most incompetent track record of all. He's an entertainer like those comedians who got elected in Italy and Ukraine.

What tangible additional value (not "sovereignty" please) has been calculated to come from Brexit?

Its still not known what the EU will cave on to avoid a no deal brexit which they clearly don?t want.

Not going to happen given the polls.

The other obvious explanation is that they have no interest in politics while ever things work out fine.

Just more Project Fear lies.

I read that the judge said it was OK, because Boris (IIRC) said

Democracy. Being able to sack those in charge.

As we see from the recent appointment for EC Pres, with a single candidate decided upon in some obscure manner and rubber stamped by a toothless EU "Parliament", the EU is not democratic.

And what would the question(s) be?

Remain opposed brexit well before you lot ripped the country apart. It is brexiteers that have been stirring for years and they that have caused the problem.

I know that you will blame someone else but that's just another of your lies.

Err. There wasn't a "remain" before the referendum.

There was a mob in parliament who hoped to be awarded an EU pension and that was their motivation for preserving the status quo, and there was the general public who had virtually no hope of being offered the ability to change anything because every Government had promised to ask the people should there be a change to the EU which affected British sovereignty, and none had honoured that promise.

So well done, Nigel Farage.

Jim

It was something Tusk said in a televised interview. Nobody since has said that it wasn't true, but someone else in the EU (I can't remember who) said it was considered a high risk strategy.

Jim

I don't think so. What we had was a Remainer as Prime Minister trying to get through a "Brexit in name only" deal and failing to do so, then refusing to look at any other possibilities. Meanwhile the other political parties who promised to honour the result of the referendum, didn't do so.

It is only now that there is a Brexiteer Prime Minister looking at the issue.

Watch this space.

Jim

And the ability to trade with the rest of the world without the currently mandatory EU Customs Union surcharges and (in some cases) limits on amounts.

Jim

And Cameron confirmed what a naive notion "Remain and reform from within" is.