As you asked, I contacted council about new circuit needed for immersion heaters, intending to do it myself under Building Control. It was explained to me that, in addition to building notice fee, there would be an expense of getting an electrician in to check the work, and that it would be easier & cheaper just to get one in to do the work. So that's what I did.
Egremont.
Are they now allowed to charge more than the BN fee then?
Dunno, but my council evidently do. Their website now says:
"All electrical work undertaken by a person or firm not registered with a Part P ?Competent Persons? self certification scheme an extra site fee of £165.00 + £28.88 VAT (£193.88)"
That's in addition to the normal fee, which is a minimum of £117.50 incl VAT, which is for a project valued from £1-£2000.
So the *smallest* amount I could pay them to inspect and approve a notifiable electrical job is £311. So small wonder that the OP received the advice he did.
David
There has been much discussion as to weather they are permitted to add this additional charge.
I suspect that
1) They _not_ permitted to make the surcharge. 2) Frankly they don't really want to be involved with any of the new notifiable activities [A] and anything that makes for less work for them is desirable. Hence the surcharge. 3) The situation mostly does not arise much (except from very law abiding diyers). 4) Most of the horrific examples of shoddy work neither come under their scrutiny or anyone else's! [A] This list is quite substantial now I believe the it to be at least the following: Electrical work as required by Part Pee etc. Installation of vented cylinders Installation of unvented cylinders. Replacment of main heating appliance. Additional heating applainces. Installation of flues. Upgrading heating controls. Installation of new ventilation. Installation of new windows.
================ I applied about a month ago and I'm still waiting for a conclusion. The Council appointed an independent electrician to check the work (already done - fit new consumer unit), and he did the check about three weeks ago. He hasn't yet sent his report to Building control.
My council have agreed that there is no charge to me other than the application fee. This was for a 'Regularisation Certificate' and the total cost to me is £84-00.
I would suggest that you ask your local Councillor to look at the fees you're being charged since your Council appears to be acting illegally by charging you for the cost of inspection over and above the Application fee.
Cic.
Indeed, here's a link to something to show the LBA if they get uppity:
I can believe that.
Very law abiding(!)
Some of that is reasonable. I wouldn't be happy putting in an unvented cylinder - they scare me. Then if I were a plumber, I'd probably feel differently.
Electrical work - As far as I'm concerned, it's the PIR that matters, and seeking qualified advice when in doubt. Interestingly, someone noted on one of the IEE forums that his PArt P LABC notified job was signed off by a council appointed "inspector" who didn't actually hold a 2391. If that is actually happening, how is this better than before?
Ventilation - to a degree. Wasn't so much of a problem before fitted carpets and tight fitting doors/windows.
Unvented cylinder - WTF?
Heating appliances, windows, controls: Well, fuel efficiency is laudable, but this is supposed to be a capitalist country. If an efficiency measure is worth making, then it will be made on economic grounds by the householder. I can see where they are coming from, I suspect most of this is aimed at new builds to ensure that el-cheapo house builders don't cut corners, but for householder initiated installations, well they can get stuffed, none of their business.
I notice on the ODPMs site, a load more amendments for 2006 are in the pipeline on Part's L and F.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again - this sort of b****cks just brings Buildings Regs into disrepute.
Tim
My experiences so far:
My council charge the normal rate. Amusingly the form detailing charges instructs me to neglect the cost of all electrical work. The form detailing the process tells me I have to get the work inspected by a part p registered electrician. I won't argue the first if they don't argue the second.
When I actually chatted to them in person, their first question was "Can you test it for us". My answer was "No, but I'll find out how to" and they were happy enough with that, and gave me the forms I'd have to fill in (an EIC, apparently some councils ask for PIRs). They also said I didn't need to submit a separate BN for each room, even though I'd want to do the work on a room-by-room basis.
I got the BNA back this morning, including an inspection card I am supposed to get filled out with stuff like excavations, footings, damp course, drains testing.
I suspect we're going to end up ignoring the forms and doing things as they make sense, since they admit they haven't got a clue about electrics and aren't set up to do it - in my initial conversations, they said they'd want to inspect first fix. On a CU replacement.
Ben
Well I hold a 'G3' card. Unfortunately this is of no use to me unless I also join the IoP as CORGI don't have a self certification scheme for these.
I agree that these devices need some sort of scrutiny. I have yet to see a compliant installation. The main sins being in the area of the D2 pipe (undersized, going uphill, not made of metal and not taken safely to a gully).
AFAICT the PIR (Periodic Inspection Report) is much the same as an EIC (Electrical Installation Certificate) although I think the former can make reference to the latter and hence save some work (must check this out).
I think we are making the same point. All the new stuff that has been dropped on us from our lords and masters is not what LABCOs are about nor is it likely to sift out the truly dire Remember:
They start out by fitting a Pott. Performa (which is a rehash design, SEDBUK 'B', with 2 stage primary HeatX) bad enough but then they compound it with Pott. controls.
What the F*** is that about?
What would *really* annoy me about being forced to give a 'competeing' contractor an overview of my work is that I may have spent long hours researching and devising a completely novel solution. Then I'm forced to give up my design and thoughts for free for someone else to use comnercially..
SFAIUI building control applications & notices are confidential to BC and are not available to anyone - not even to the original applicant as I found out about 5 years ago when I wanted to double check how an application had ended up after discussion with the BCO [ I did see it in the end but it was favour!].
Hi
Yes indeed.
That's outstanding(!) I love the way it wibbles along the ground and the right angle bend in front of the white drain pipe is sheer quality!
I really don't think, for one minute, that an owner-occupier totally ignoring the non-safety related parts of the BR is going to result in the slightest repercussion, assuming that some jobsworth doesn't notice in the first 6 months after the job's done (I think that's the statutory limitation on prosecution). Even given the forthcoming HiP, I just don't think most buyers will give a rat's a**e if the boiler's non condensing, the windows are good but not 'K' and the electrics are perfect but not rubber stamped. They'll probably try to knock a bit off, but they do that anyway.
I would feel differently if I were a landlord, as I'd feel some duty to the tenants, and landlords insurance is probably extra fussy, but as an owner-occupier, well sod them. I have enough reasons not to maim my family and friends, I don't need a civil servant to make sure I don't.
Sorry, cut'n'paste-o. No, I didn't know that. Youngest house I've set foot in is 15 years old, which I'm guessing predates this.
Speaking entirely as a lay person, I honestly can't see much to commission (at least on safety grounds) on a vented cylinder. Mostly: does it work, doesn't it leak and did I get all the air out of the system.
I'm interested, what are the main points of a commissioning cert on these, officially?
Had a look. Fortunately, doesn't look earth shattering. Their main page led me to think there were major changes coming, but in reality it looks like a host of minor ammendments. Part F from what I can see wants better background ventilation, via a trickle ventilator in windows or equivalent. Few other random things for offices.
Revised Part F is here:
Sorry, didn't mean to scare you. Caught my eye whilst looking for the Part P bit I gave a link to.
Just wondering how long FatBoy TwoChins and his puppet master will take to require a rubber stamp to put up a shelf.
Cheers
Tim
I think it is more to do with energy effiecieny, ie does the new cylinder comply with Part L in terms of coil size and insulation.
I'm in the midst of building a fairly huge 2-storey extension. I'm doing all the electrics myself. When I told the BCO, he said it was no problem and could I do the testing. I said I'd figure it out, which he was happy with. "We just need to see the signed certificate", he said. So I did the testing last weekend and I'm just about to send it off to BC.
First fix inspection was amusing. BCO admitted he knew hardly anything and TBH about all he checked was the height of sockets. Didn't ask about bonding, cable sizes or any of the other things I'd carefulyl prepared answers for :-)
I think technically the BC office should pay for a contractor to come out and test your work, but I suspect this would annoy them. And you don't want to annoy your BCO. Anyway, testing and inspection should be done througout the build ideally, not just at the end. Must be a bit of a nightmare inspecting and testing someone else's work once it's all complete.
Regards,
Jon.
Are you suggesting that a manufacturer would produce a cylinder that would not meet the requirements and still apply a commissioning sticker for the installer to fill in?
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