Preventing limescale in bathrooms

[Pete Verdon]

Some time this summer (having originally intended to have done it by now...) I'm going to be refitting my bathroom. I live in a hard water area, and my current shower cubicle is covered in limescale. This I don't care about, since it's a tatty old thing that'll be ripped out soon anyway, but if at all possible I want to avoid the new one going the same way.

I don't really want to get a whole house water softener - the silly auxiliary tap I've seen by other people's kitchen sinks puts me off, as does (more seriously) the price. I don't believe in the electromagnetic voodoo boxes where you wind a cable round the pipe. Are there any other alternatives?

Pete

[John Rumm]

Only regular cleaning and descaling....

The phosphate dosing treatments will stop heating devices from getting blocked by scale, but they can't stop the evaporative deposition of scale you get in showers etc.

[John]

What works for me in reducing the cleaning is to never use bar soap - greasy stuff made of fat. Only use liquid soap (I use hand wash as shower soap!) - shower gels, etc. It seems to be a better "wetting agent" which reduces water drying on the tiles and screen.

[David]

I was told that you should run cold water through the tap for a few seconds after using hot water :S.

The scale reducer that seems to be recommended by some plumbers is called a Combimate.

[Frank Erskine]

On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:29:24 +0100, Pete Verdon had this to say:

Move to a soft water area?

:-)

Actually hard water is allegedly supposed to be better for making tea and general drinking from a health POV.

Why not fit a softener purely for bathroom purposes?

[The Medway Handyman]

Spot on. Just use an acid based cleaner like Cillit Bang Power Cleaner Grime & Lime. It really does what it says on the tin/bottle.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Put in that water softener: you dont have to have an aux tap: Simply run the kitchen one straight from the mains.

Not only will it save you soap costs, it will save you replacing taps, shower mixers and shower heads every few years as well.

[John Rumm]

A combimate is a phosphate dosing unit - it works well for protecting heating appliances, but is no use preventing scale deposition in showers etc.

[Invisible Man]

...and the saving in time spent cleaning is amazing.

[Huge]

S'what we did. The outside and kitchen cold tap both run straight from the mains.

[Jon Fairbairn]

I keep a squeegee in the bathroom. I've cut it down so that it's just the right length for the panels of my shower screen. It only takes a moment to get the water off the glass and tiles, and I haven't needed to descale the shower since I started doing this. (Partner prefers using a cellulose sponge (Spontex) to the squeegee, but the principle is the same). Of course, it's a matter of taste whether you prefer doing this at every shower to a regular descaling routine or a water softener, but the installation costs are very low (Screwfix part 51880: £5 + a few minutes' work with an angle grinder¹ and a pair of scissors)

I'd consider fitting a water softener myself, except that the manual for the combi says not to (might be an issue for you too).

[1] Do I win this round?

[Peter Scott]

Don't ion exchange softeners increase sodium levels in the water, or is that just wrong memory or nonsense? It's what put me off the idea. I use a lime busting spray (I've used several), left on for twenty minutes, about once a week. Wipe off with a pan sponge and spray with cold water. I live in a very hard area and also have to use anti-mould spray. I think the build-up of scale increases the change of mould colonies.

Peter Scott

[The Natural Philosopher]

Yes. So what?. They swap calcioum for sodium..sidium carbonate is soluble.

Why?

More sodium in a bag of crisps than a gallon of softened water.

And it tastes interesting too. Like mineral water ;-)

[David]

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Oh thanks I didn't know that, probably why it's called a Combimate -;)

[Pete Verdon]

OK, perhaps a softener is the answer after all. That gets me thinking on where to put it.

Unfortunately most of the ground floor pipework is buried in the floor slab, so my options of where to connect the thing are limited. I can't easily put it in the cold supply ahead of everything but the kitchen tap (a pity as the physical location would be handy, but the plumbing would be a nightmare). I can probably squeeze it into the cupboard with the boiler, teed into either the boiler cold input or the hot output. I'm guessing that the cold would be better for a plastic water softener? Either way, if it's connected to the boiler flow it's not going to be softening the cold water supply to the bathroom. Is it still likely to be effective?

Pete

[Stuart Noble]

I've recently descaled a stainless steel sink just by wiping it over with vinegar every night for a week. I'm sure if it was done once a week, instead of every ten years, it would stay sparkling. It has proved to my satisfaction that the strength of the acid is neither here nor there when it comes to scale.

[Peter Scott]

Well I don't eat a lot of crisps. Do you know what the amounts are? Are they comparable to bottled mineral water? I keep my dietary sodium down for the usual reasons. Presumably though the more calcium there is to displace the more sodium there will be in the water.

Peter Scott

[Pete Verdon]

Maybe, but I'd have more than a sink to wipe down. While I'm happy to put a lot of work into one-off jobs, I do my best to arrange things so that repetitive work is minimised. Obviously the kitchen floor isn't going to be mopping itself any time soon, but if I can arrange a bathroom that doesn't require constant cleaning to avoid permanent damage[1] then I will.

Pete

[1] I understand it's impossible to bring glass back to perfect clarity if it's had enough limescale on it

[The Natural Philosopher]

Correct.

Also if you take in enough potassium, you should be pissing the lot out anyway.

Try googling for 'drinking water calcium parts per million' etc to see what relative levels are/.

Very hard water >500ppm calcium So 500mg of calcium per litre.

So assume half a gram of sodium per liter/softened..

That's about 1/12th of a teaspoonful.

So in the hardest water areas, 12 liters of water a day (6gm) is your recommended maximum salt intake.

A bag of crisps typically contains the same sodium as 3 liters of softened (very hard) water..

You will get far more from any preserved foods..sausages, bacon, etc as well as most starch products like bread/biscuits etc to which salt is usually added.

Note two things: firstly most people don't like the taste of ion swapped water. A lot of people use filters or buy bottled for drinking.

Secondly, most people wont soften the kitchen tap. So you can still get too much calcium and harden your artereies with it, that way ...;-)

[Peter Scott]

Actually that's quite a lot. I could easily drink two to three litres of water a day, what with soft drinks, tea and coffee. That leaves very little for cooking and so on, if I don't want to hit the maximum, and I don't.

As I said I try to keep salt down and don't eat many crisps nor much processed food. Thanks for the data. Looks like I am probably best off without a softener.

Nice one. Calcium doesn't harden the arteries or I'd fill them with calgon.