plumbing: scaled up tap connector (was freezing kits)

[Stephen]

Hello,

In the pipe freezing thread I was asking about changing some kitchen sink taps. I'm afraid I have not changed the taps because all the nuts are scaled over. I presume the tap connectors have weeped over the years (fibre washer worn?) and the water has evaporated leaving the scale behind. As you know, there's never much room to manouvre under a sink at the best of times and even using one of those special spanners I couldn't shift the nuts.

If I could get the tap connectors undone, I think I will have the same problem with the tap back nuts. The hot water one in particular was buried under calcium!

Other than cutting the pipes and ripping the sink out and replacing the sink and taps together, what's the best way to take out the taps?

Can the scale be dissolved off with an acid or vinegar? Would a blow torch help loosen the nuts?

Thanks in advance, Stephen.

[The Medway Handyman]

Pretty standard experience for me unforetunately.

"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race." --Calvin Coolidge

What kind of 'special spanner' did you use? There are various typs & some are better than others.

If you can cut the supply pipes to give a 'straight line' to the tap connectors a box spanner will work, and will also sort the back nuts. If the back nuts are plastic they are likely to be brittle & a good bashing will break them.

WD40 helps, as does a little percussive maintenance.

Correct spanner if often the key, which is why my plumbing bag is so piggin heavy.

HTH

[Dave]

You forgot to say what weight of percussive maintenance to use :-)

Dave

[Stephen]

I used something like this:

are now going to tell me I should have used this: 't you ;)

The box spanner idea sounds good because they surround the whole nut so will not slip off, like the wrenches do. It does mean cutting the pipe though, which is a sort of point of no return.

That's what I was thinking, so it's good to know I was heading in the right direction. That said, the underside of the sink looks a little rusty so I worry too much force might rip the sink as well as the taps out!

[The Medway Handyman]

> aren't you ;)

Errm. Afraid so :-) The first one is a useful as a back pocket in a sock.

At least I haven't suggested

?_dyncharset=UTF-8&fh_search=jaw+dropper which is what I use, worth every penny.

Easy to repair or replace using flexible tap connectors.

Helps if you have an assistant to (a) hold the tap still with mole grips or stiltsons or (b) turn the tap while you hold the nut still with the basin wrench.

It will come off! Think positive!

[Derek Geldard]

In the last week or so I've freed off a corroded stop tap by heating up a lemon in the microwave and sticking it on the exposed spindle of the stop tap (the crossbar had loosened and come off) and repeating a few times, then spraying the whole valve with 3 in 1 oil, then WD -40, and then with aerosol white spray grease, and leaving it all to soak in, before refitting the crossbar and having another go which was successful this time.

Derek

[Stephen]

Crickey, four different treatments!

[Stephen]

>>> aren't you ;)

I knew there was one that was liked by the group and one that wasn't but I couldn't remember which was which. In defence of the first one, I have used it to remove my old bath and two basins, and refit all of their replacements. I guess they work when the fittings are clean and accessible.

I think the problem I have had is that I am now working on a sink, where the joints are more out of reach.

You mentioned box spanners before and I was going to say it is a shame they do not make very long box spanners that would reach from the tap connectors down below the sink basin where you could easily fit a tommy bar. I'm not sure there would be much room to turn the bar squashed between the sink bowl and the wall.

I guess the second tool has some good features: it seems to have a long handle that would drop beneath the sink bowl where it could be turned more easily. I hear you can attach a wrench from a socket set to some of them for extra leverage.

I am puzzled by the latest offering from Monument:

has two ends. What is the second used for? At first I thought there was one end for 15mm and the other for 22mm but I thought the "claw" was one size fits all? Then I notice the second end is in a different plane. Is one end for vertical use and the other end for horizontal? Aren't 99% of tap connectors vertical?

I looked at this and your review but I am unsure what it does. Why do they come as a pair? Is there a 15mm and 22mm version? Am I right tot think that they tighten the tap back nut and tap connector nut at once? What's the point of that? To prevent one coming undone whilst you tighten the other?

Thanks.

[Stephen]

Sorry, I forgot to ask is it ok to use oil on these fittings? It is what I was thinking of doing myself but considering it is tap water, is there a danger of the oil getting into the water? Is it just a case of not applying too much to begin with and wiping the excess of the pipe as soon as you open the joint?

[The Medway Handyman]

>>>>> aren't you ;)

There isn't :-) I often use s stubby screwdriver instead.

You can get them with short & long handles & even telescopic.

> It has two ends. What is the second used for? At first I thought there

I think the photo is confusing. The end piece swaps from side to side depending on weather you are doing up or undoing. I think this has two jaws to reduce the size when using 15mm.

?_dyncharset=UTF-8&fh_search=jaw+dropper>> which is what I use, worth every penny.

Yes, one for basins, one for baths.

The second jaw isn't a hexagon, its just circular. To undo a pipe connector they are positioned together & it acts as a guide to locate the first hexagonal jaw on the nut. When undoing back nuts its slid down out of the way.

[Derek Geldard]

Well if it's just a case of freeing off a siezed stop tap the water can't get contaminated until the solvents / oils have got through and penetrated the gland whereupon they will meet the water which will be under high pressure, and hence tending to come out. rather than admit any contaminating fluids in.

Derek

[Stephen]

Thanks for the explanation. Why are they so dear?

[The Medway Handyman]

Dunno. Prolly cause Armeg are the only people who make one & presumably have a patent, or maybe they are made in small numbers. There isn't £45 worth of materials & labour in them.

Glad I bit the bullet & bought a set though, they really do make the job a doddle.

[Stephen]

I think it is a vicious circle: they are expensive because they sell so few; they sell so few because they are expensive!

Why are they so much better than anything else? They sound like a normal wrench but with a guide for tap connectors, and for back nuts you don't even use the guide. Is there anything else that's special about them?

[The Medway Handyman]

Compared to a normal cheap cast basin wrench, they are much slimmer and the head is a hexagon rather than a slot, so much easier to get in to confined spaces e.g. corner basins and you get more of a 'turn' before repositioning.

Compared to the adjustable type basin wrench with the sprung loaded jaw, they are again much slimmer & give a much more positive grip - the spring loaded jaws are difficult to locate & slip off all the time.

The sliding side handle allows you to position it somewhere where it can be turned and enables you to apply a lot of force if needed.

When used on tap connectors, especially difficult to get at ones like those on a bath, the guide means you can pretty much do it blind. Once the tap connectors are undone you can use the other end of the same tool on the back nut. Cheap cast basin wrenches & the Taptool either fit the tap connector or the backnut, but obviously can't fit both. The sprung jaw type are not much good on back nuts because they don't stay at 90 degrees.

They do wot is says on the tin basically. I wouldn't part with mine.

[Stephen]

Thanks. Photos and descriptions in catalogues can only tell so much. These are the kind of things you can only find out from talking to someone who has actually used them. They sound like they have been really good for you and used on a daily basis would soon pay for themselves. For my occasional DIY use though, I can't justify that expense right now.

You mentioned in an earlier post about your plumbing bag weighing so much. How do you manage to carry everything you need with you? I'm thinking that if you carry straight couples, elbows, and tees in 15 and 22 millimetre sizes, perhaps both in compression and solder, that's already quite a box full of heavy brass.