OT: You couldnt't make it up.

[Roland Perry]

No, for letting the country's stocks run so low recently.

[Dave Plowman (News]

It was covered on BBC news yesterday.

I'd guess trains use duty free red diesel. But the electricity at spot market rates. So perhaps no surprise a diesel is cheaper to operate at this moment in time.

[Dave Plowman (News]

Of course. Once we had all that wonderful North Sea gas etc, why worry about the future? Sadly typical of pretty well every government we've had. Jam today is all that the voters are interested in.

[Andy Burns]

Yes, users of red diesel will be tightened up from next April, but passenger/freight vehicles that run on rails will still qualify ...

[bert]

And the 70s and the 60s

[Fredxx]

The UK has a policy of having minimal buffer of Natural Gas, so entirely subject to market forces. When it comes to diesel, oil companies are obliged to maintain stocks equivalent to 90 days.

I do fee we should take Germany's lead and maintain decent stocks of NG. They are talking of increasing it.

"Germany has the world?s fourth-largest gas-storage capacity, which is also the largest within the EU.101 The volume of usable working gas was 24.4 billion cubic metres in 2017. Natural gas storage facilities cannot only balance short-term fluctuations of demand, but they also play an important role for the security of supply. Theoretically, the total storage capacity could supply Germany for 80 days on average."

[bert]

Riveted square windows cos the glue they tried wouldn't stick.

[bert]

In article [e-mail]>, Adrian [e-mail]> writes

They have a few around for when the overheads blow down and the electrics can't move.

[Andy Burns]

Centrica have shut down (or are still shutting down?) their Rough storage off Easington, as it was becoming dangerous to fill; two other stores off Bacton* were not gone ahead-with last decade, so more or less, all we have is the salt cavern stores in Cheshire which are operate "gas storage as a service" and whatever's in the pipes.

[*] we went on holiday there when I was a small child.

[Tim Streater]

Not enough room for infrastructure in this country. Too many people.

[Fredxx]

If it's important, there will always be enough room.

[charles]

They are under ground. Not many people live there

[Adrian]

In message <skbb50$6um$ [e-mail], "Brian Gaff (Sofa)" [e-mail]> writes

For safety reasons, it is very difficult to get an electric overground railway built now using a form of third rail, so it has to be overheads. The overheads work at a higher voltage, which is more efficient. Whether or not enough electricity can be supplied (at an affordable price) is a different matter, but that applies to a number of other areas as well.

There have been several sail powered trains, but they do have certain drawbacks.

Adrian

[charles]

There was great idea a few years ago, to convert all theold SR to overhead and abandon the 3rd rail. Noboday thought about bridges & tunnels

[Tim Streater]

Third rail dates from before the war, and was used only on what under BR was Southern Region. No overhead until the 60s or so when steam was being scrapped.

The underground uses 3rd and 4th rails, with the centre rail being earth AFAIK. That's why Southern Region trains can actually use underground lines (e.g. between Wimbledon and East Putney on the Districk Line you occasionally see Southern Region trains (no passengers AFAIK, just moving stock)).

It's also why, if you fall off the platform at a tube station as a train is coming in, you can safely take refuge in the deep channel between the rails with no danger from the central conductor.

[Tim Streater]

Probably one of TNP's Art Students.

[Bob Eager]

No, it's a differential voltage. One rail is a bit negative (-210v), and the other is quite a lot positive (420v); total 630v. Running rails are earth (no insulators).

[Steve Walker]

I did wonder whether it would be possible to have a third rail, where the rail was suspended from supports that came down one side, with the rail covered and the pick-up shoes running on the underside. Much safer. Very likely there would be insufficient clearance though.

Rebuilding every bridge or tunnel to allow adequate clearance for OHLE, plus increased wall heights to protect pedestrians from the OHLE would be rather a large and expensive task too. Indeed a local bridge near here would need raising considerably, but doing so would either make the bridge too humped for longer vehicles or require the side road right by it (the only sensible access to an entire estate) to be raised up, with a number of shops needing to be demolished and re-built with a higher ground level or they'd become inaccessible.

It should however be possible for trains to be equipped with pantographs at each end, with each being lowered and raised again, in turn, automatically, removing the need for OHLE under the bridges.

[John Brown]

Tim Streater [e-mail] wrote

The population density isn't that different to germany.

[Roland Perry]

In message <skd2pn$sq9$ [e-mail], at 00:27:50 on Sat, 16 Oct

2021, Steve Walker [e-mail]> remarked:

I think that's effectively what the DLR uses.