OT: You couldnt't make it up.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Except being the Daily Express, they probably have. Or perhaps not

"Rail freight operators are now reportedly being forced to halt their electric locomotives and revert back to diesel trains in a move set to increase carbon emissions and journey times. Logistic firms have said soaring wholesale energy prices and a boost to track access charges has made electric, low-carbon trains impossible to run at an affordable cost. The move comes as the COP26 climate summit approaches where world leaders will meet to discuss their climate goals, and it is likely to put Britain in a weaker position."

Ha hah ha ha .

[Andy Burns]

The Natural Philosopher quoted:

Horse's mouth

[Chris Bacon]

Go for the source, not the mouthpiece.

I treat the express with the same contempt I treat the "independent" (sic) and other such organs. The press feel they have to report things that people want to hear, for their own parochial audiences, or for their own purposes, and much of their output (indeed, that from the media in general) is very, very unhelpful. There are many examples of incomplete, misleading and factually inaccurate articles. It's so bad that I can't say I know of one single decent news source. It's always a good idea to look at the source.

[Pancho]

Hum..., I wonder what I might do... if I were the Fat Controller and were looking for a government subsidy...

It would be surprising if the railways had enough spare diesel capacity to switch significant volume from electric to diesel.

Cynicism aside, I do actually agree with you that we need a proper energy policy for the future. I agree the current numbers and projections do not add up. I agree the media (BBC, et al.) is misleading the public.

I know you don't want to give me your pearls but, the only real difference I can see between us is that, long term, I want a full nuclear fission solution, where as you *may* be willing to go with coal or other hydrocarbon.

[charles]

I think the point to be borne in mind is that if you know the facts about a news story the newspaper is wrong. So, what about the other stories?

[Sysadmin]

We had the opportunity for nuclear stations in the eighties, but the government shelved it, together with radioactive waste storage sites.

[Chris Hogg]

What's that quote that appears in a couple of sigs here? 'If you don't read the newspapers, you are uninformed; if you do tread the newspapers, you are misinformed'. Mark Twain, I think. So, in the intervening 100-150 years, nothing has changed. Except we now have Radio, TV, the internet and 'social media', which just makes it all spread around faster and to a wider and possibly more gullible audience.

[newshound]

Worse than that, nuclear indecision started in the 1960's and we have had a soul-searching session every decade since then.

[The Natural Philosopher]

This is only the freight traffic. There us still a lot of unelectrified track mileage especially onn non passenger sections of track

I simply disbelieve the scale and urgency of the 'CO2 problem'.

Pragmatically we should hang on to what we have and but import or drill for whatever fossil fuel we have left.

Right now global gas and goal are very very tight.

We could be making a fortune pout of fracked gas.

But in the longer term - 30 years roughly there is not alternative to nuclear power to avoid a civilisation crash - which may happen anyway.

When people become more concerned about what sex they would rather have been born than getting food in their stomachs and a warm roof over their heads, there seems to be no hope really.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I read the papers for amusement and to see what the people with deep pockets want you to believe and be aware of, for utterly cynical reasons.

And occasionally, as in this case, the news is coming from a different source - this time its the hauliers again. Creators of the petrol crisis.

Its all very amusing with Europhiles declaring that energy is a UK problem whereas the international press are full of crises in India, China, the USA and continental Europe.

At some level when ideology and profiteering has triumphed over reality and common sense, the renewable chickens will come home to roost. The DE may well be lying, but the reality is what is on your electricity bill,...

Of course the DE is never right about anything and over 75% of the stories are simply constructed, misreported or paid for by someone to push a point of view. E.g. whenever I see a fund, market sector, or stock lauded as a 'buy' I know its time to sell...

[The Natural Philosopher]

yes, that's one of my rotating .sigs.

People I meet online insist that what they have to say is the truth because its been written/spoken./had a a video clip espousing it.

But the reality is that 99% of everything in the media and online that is of any quality or any decent reach is paid for by someone who has a commercial or political axe to grind.

My only response to that is to say 'grow up and accept that the truth is something you have to discover for yourself and is only ever to an entirely unsatisfactory level of probability'.

In short never believe anything. Note it, remark on it, add it to the collection of 'what someone wants you to hear' and if you have the time investigate it, do so.

[The Natural Philosopher]

There was a simple reason for that as explained to me by an ex CEGB engineer of the time.

"We were all set to replicate Sizewell B when the interest rates peaked and the word came from Whitehall that we couldn't afford the capital cost: So we built gas instead"

Since about 90% of the cost of electricity per unit from a nuclear power station is paying back the loan you took out to build it, going from

7.5% to 15% interest on capital more or less doubled the ex works cost of nuclear power.

[The Natural Philosopher]

The problem was it was all done by scientists. Like British airliners.

The comet was sexy and aerodynamic, but pods under the wings was simply a cheaper way to maintain engines, so Boeing realised that what airlines wanted wasn't sex, but cost per passenger mile.

The only power station that was built to someone elses design and no UK scientists stuck his fingers in was Sizewell B.

The problem with nuclear is that it was conflated with weapons by the Soviet funded CND and Greenpeace etc...and it directly competes with Russian and Arab gas.

So they bought the regulatory process as well as the eco groups and used the excuse of 'safety' to drive the planning/build/approval/insurance cost of nuclear out to the stratosphere.

Hence the engineer designed small modular reactors, designed to circumvent punitive regulations more than to be better reactors.

[Chris Hogg]

+100

I often say 'if scepticism was an olympic sport, I'd be on the UK team'.

Newspapers, and these days the media in general, are not there to tell you the truth or give you the facts, they are there to make money for their owners, which in most cases they do, in spades.

[Andrew]

And several crashed until the men in white coats suddenly discovered that big rectangular windows were very prone to metal fatigue

[The Natural Philosopher]

I think they are there to run whatever stories they are paid to. I remember the DT candidly admitting that they dumped their environmental columnists - Geoffrey Lean and Louise Gray - because no one was prepared to place adverts next to them on the pages.

They now have Ambrose Evans Pritchard blandly announcing that 'the answer to the failure of renewable energy, is more renewable energy', instead...

[Fredxx]

I was aware many years ago that an electrified rail consumed more fuel overall than a diesel. But that was before green energy became significant and they do tend to run faster.

YMMV

[Tim Streater]

That's an engineering rather than a scientific issue. Confirmed by them taking a hull and subjecting it to repeated pressure cycling. It failed the same way.

[charles]

It wasn't that they were big - it was the corners.

[charles]

Have you ever been to Paddington station. All services* diesael with the engines idling.

Heathrow Express is electric now.