OT: White goods - provide new or s/h?

When my mum died my wife and I inherited her house and have been busy renovating it. Another month or two should see it ready to be let out to tenants - unfurnished.

We've never had a property to rent out before and are /very/ green and naive about the whole thing (which is why we'll be using a letting agency) but, speaking to various people, there seems to be about a 50/50 split as to exactly what "unfurnished" means in respect of the kitchen. It seems some people provide white goods, some don't.

We've had a new kitchen fitted, which included a nice integrated oven and hob and we've decided to provide a fridge/freezer and a washing machine (no room for anything else such as tumble dryer or dishwasher).

Question is, given that we don't know who'll be renting the place and whether they'll look after things or not, would you provide second-hand (providing, of course, that they pass all relevant safety checks and inspections) or brand new? What do you "seasoned" and experienced landlords do?

TIA,

Mogweed.

Reply to
Mogweed
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There is really no hard and fast rule with this, it all depends on the quality of the house, area and expected rental charge, the better equipped and finished the easier it is to let at a good price. But, beware as I lease a number of flats/houses to councils and housing associations, most of the kitchens, appliances and bathroom are either stolen or destroyed at some point during the lease.

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Reply to
Mark

It might be an idea to speak to the letting agency - I'm sure they'll advise you.

Reply to
Paul Andrews

From having rented various places (as a tennant, not letter), I'd expect "unfurnished" to mean cooker and washing machine, but wouldn't expect new. I only saw one unfurnished that didn't have even those, but there weren't even bulbs in the lightsockets either!

Reply to
Jonathan

If you put used ones in it'll be a mistake. If you put new in it'll be an expensive mistake.

A letting agency would be another mistake imho :)

NT

Reply to
meow2222

IANAL, but think if it is all detailed on the lease, including the condition of anything in the property, you should be covered (personally I would take photos of everything too), but do remember, if something you have supplied breaks down due to a fault or fair wear and tear, you need to repair or replace it. Getting something new with a guarantee may be the better option (If things like fridges washing machines do break, even after their normal

12 month guarantee expires, you can still get redress from the retailer under the sale of goods act if it hasn't lasted a reasonable length of time)

You need to hold a deposit from the tenants (usually a months rent). You have to allow for fair wear and tear on items, but if they are abusing your property or items in it, you have a very good case to terminate their agreement

You are entitled to check you property periodically, but must give reasonable notice to the tenants - You can't just walk in there unannounced, as they are entitled to live peacefully in the accommodation without nuisance from their landlord!

Make sure you get the gas (boiler, cooking appliances etc.), electrics certified each year.

Make sure the tenants are provided with all the instruction manuals for anything you supply (boiler included!) or if they break them, they may be able to argue that they didn't misuse something intentionally, they were just trying to get it to work.

The building will have to comply with the relevant fire regulations, so make sure this is all done.

Mains powered, interlinked smoke detectors are mandatory if the property was built since June 1992. If this is not the case, it is advisable to fit battery operated detectors (it is not required, but it does show you are providing your duty of care to your tenants should anything happen!) It is imperative your tenants know they are responsible for maintaining battery operated detectors, otherwise, if there is a fire, and the detectors are not working (batteries flat or removed etc.) then you may be held responsible for the fact the alarms did not sound.

Usually the tenants are responsible for the utility bills directly, so make sure the accounts are transferred to them as soon as possible otherwise, if they do a runner, and the utilities are all in your name, you will have to pay the bills!

Pets - Terms which ban outright the keeping of pets may not be enforceable because these could apply to, for example, a goldfish. However, terms which state "no pets which could cause damage to the property or be a nuisance to other residents" may well be enforceable. Where pets are allowed the tenant should agree in writing to compensate the landlord for any damage caused including cleaning, insect/flea and smell eradication then they leave.

Probably common sense here, but if you treat your tenants with respect, making sure you are available for them if they have any problems, making sure their move in is as easy for both of you as you can make it, getting things resolved quickly, and generally being pleasant, they will hopefully respect you and your property. It doesn't hurt to contact them every now and then, just to make sure they are happy with everything and reassure them you are there if there is any problems. If you treat them like something on the bottom of your shoe, then they will probably return the complement!

Sparks...

Reply to
Sparks

Who is likely to be renting the place? DHSS, students, professionals, a family? What is the rent going to be?

Sweep generalisations coming so no flames please. For the first couple the chances of the place getting trashed are pretty high, why bother putting in new? The second two with a high rent then perhaps new but to be honest second hand in good/excellent condition, clean and full working order is OK. After all a tenant can't really expect the landlord to fit all new goods when the tenant changes, perhaps after only 3 months...

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

If either fridge or w/m breaks down the tenants will expect a quick replacement. Even if you buy new, most service organisations can take days to arrange a repair/replacement, and then you will have to arrange to be at the property to take delivery of it (you can't expect your tenants to take time off work).

You might well be better off getting s/h appliances from a local repair place who will give you a straight swap or loan appliance if you take the broken one round. Otherwise, good savings can be made on 'scratch and dent' appliances.

As an aside, I would avoid integrated appliances as they are more awkward to repair/replace, especially the oven/hob which is liable to get seriously manky.

Owain

Reply to
Owain

Thanks very much to all who replied. Plenty of food for thought there. As to Owain's last paragraph above, the integrated oven and hob are already installed :o(

Mogweed.

Reply to
Mogweed

I agree, it very much depends on the who you expect to let to and for how much.

For instant in the upper end of the private rental sector not having the necessary white goods in good condition would be foolish. At the other end of the spectrum see above.

Reply to
Ed Sirett

Yes, I thought they might be :-)

The 'Renting Property For Dummies' book is fairly comprehensive.

Owain

Reply to
Owain

Bear in mind that in renting parlance, "unfurnished" actually means that there are no furnishings, floor coverings, curtains, white goods, anything. You're talking about "part-furnished" which is conventionally taken to mean that carpets and curtains are included, and maybe kitchen white goods.

I'd say that it's usual to provide white goods these days, especially as more and more kitchens tend to be fully fitted, meaning that tenants are less likely to acquire their own cookers or hobs/ovens.

In terms of white goods, I'd say that in terms of being most likely to be provided, the order would be cooker (most likely) -> fridge/freezer

-> washing machine -> dishwasher. Personally I would advise against providing a washing machine as they are quite likely to go wrong especially when subject to abuse, which involves the landlord in hassle/expense.

A lot comes down to who you are marketing your property to; the locality it's in, condition, type of property, rent etc will be likely to appeal to different types of tenant. And when screening/interviewing applicants, it's ultimately up to you who you choose as tenants.

As to whether you go for new or second hand - difficult one. You wouldn't want to put an obviously grotty old fridge in a newly refurbished top-end house, but you might not want to fit a grand's worth of brand-new USA-style fridge-freezer in a tatty ex-council flat which you'll be letting out to students.

Finally, I'd recommend you subscribe to a forum or two at

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- there's a lot of useful advice there.

David

Reply to
Lobster

I'd agree with that - it's excellent!

I think the decision of whether to go for a built-in hob/oven rather than a freestanding cooker has a lot to do with the target market; certainly in more up-market properties (and TBH not just those) a fully fitted kitchen is pretty much de rigeur these days, and you'd be likely to lose punters by not having one.

David

Reply to
Lobster

Use a good agent. Believe me, all agents are not the same. Certainly round here there are those agents who I believe should be hung drawn and quartered. There are also some others who are wonderful.

If you're green and naive, consider this... I once had an agent complete a tenancy agreement whilst I was overseas. The basic details they supplied meant that had the tenant chosen to notice, they would have realised that there was no valid tenancy - this would have made the tenants 'licensees' and virtually 'un-evictable'.

Yes, I could have ended up looking at a 200k house with 'legalised' squatters.

Go and have a good read on

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Best few quid I ever spent. Whether you choose to use an agency or not, I would highly recommend paying the subscription.

Some of the other posts on here suggest that at the lower end of the market it will get damaged so don't bother, but at the higher end the tenant will expect it.

I would say that either way, low or high end of the market, put in as little as you think you can get away with.

At the lower end of the market they'll be happy just to have a nice house, and at the higher end, whether or not it's got a 50 quid second hand washing machine is not going to affect their rental decision. It certainly won't affect your rental income.

Regardless of high or low end, if your washing machine goes wrong, guess who has to fix/replace it? Guess who'll be getting the stupid phone calls 'cos they've bunged the drawer with soap powder... etc etc etc.

Someone

Reply to
somebody

One can get good condition "as new" appliances off ebay at good prices but it might be worth looking for ones that you can get parts for fairly easy. I *think* you can get appliance insurance for any appliances these days i.e. not tied in when you buy one new. These days tenants would expect cooker fridge and washing machine I'd say. Anything more as a luxury - like drier, dishwasher. You have to weigh up the cost saving vs risk of failure.

Having said that if the rest of the house is unfurished then it may be that you're only appealing to people with their own furniture who may well be happy to bring with them some appliances.

Reply to
adder1969

Do. for boilers. My experience is that a lot of tenants have a much lower degree of tolerance of failure than most of us would. The classic was the tenant who found she had no water following a burst water main. When I told her this was the reason and gave her the emergency number so she could check for herself I was told that she wasn't interested in excuses and it was up to me to do something!

Reply to
Tony Bryer

I have rented a few unfurnished houses in the past.

They have all had a cooker. Almost all had a fridge. One had a manky washing machine, another a freezer. None had a dishwasher or tumble dryer.

I managed to buy increasingly unfurnished houses until by the time I bought a house, I only needed a sofa.

About half came with an actually working vacuum cleaner. Those that did were kept in better condition, so make sure you leave a good vacuum cleaner for them to use if you want them to maintain the property properly.

When looking around rental property you will find that the quantity and quality of white goods is all part of the package that the prospective tenants are considering.

I'd buy either, depending on how much time I had to find cheaper appliances. Don't buy expensive ones, though, they might get manked or stolen.

Christian.

Reply to
Christian McArdle

Don't worry about that. It is not unusual to have integrated cooking appliances. At least if there is a failure, you only have to fix/replace half of the cooker and the tenants can still cook something!

Christian.

Reply to
Christian McArdle

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