OT - Which ?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Obviously, being an import. No Common Market then.

Noisy? They left the noise behind when on the move...

And this was different from others cars in what way?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Classic Car magazines are full of inaccuracies.

[Bob Eager]

I had two Morris Minors (the first one being a convertible!)

Both of them were definitely tail happy in the wet...and even in the dry if pushed. Cart spring rear suspension and the 'interesting' torsion bars at the front.

[dennis]

I don't think you could call the swing axels on a Herald independent. They were connected by a cart spring across the top. Which is why they were such cr@p in corners. I had one, but not by choice.

[dennis]

I think I had a couple of Corgi cars to play with.

[sweetheart]

Was that more a case of the car or the driver?

[sweetheart]

Well when I was young and daft and I first got this magazine I believed everything it said. before buying anything we would chekc. OH still tells me to do this. But my experience was they were wrong. The things suggested were always expensive and often no more reliable than those of cheaper makes.

Their car advice is out of date and often based on small samples. The samples are skewed and about as useful as Jeremy Clarkeson on anything that isnt an expensive and fast car.

Their information in last months mag about the mail service was I would bet biased because the system broke down and I know because I was taking part in it. So how many of those who reported have been included and how many like me ( because of their system failure) were disregarded?

They are also selective in what they say anyway. That I know from experience too.

More recenly I have read the magazine and bugun to realise it has a series of political agenda's its playing out. One is the green issues thing.

Its financial profduct advice is so poor and unconsistent as to be useless. It contradicts itself monthly ( probaly always has but its noticeable to me now)

The biggest sod I have had with it is the recommendation of a site which OH fell in love with. He of the penny pinching about heating etc. has bought two worthless things off this site just because Which? recommended it!

What else do you want me to say?

[Bob Eager]

Oh, the driver played a part. But I didn't get that problem driving other cars...ergo the car had a problem.

Even my wallowing Humber Hawk wasn't as bad. And the Land Rover was much better...

[Roger Chapman]

In which case you won't have any problem detailing a few dozen of the vast number you have discovered over the years.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Then you're wrong.

The suspension allowed too much camber change in an adverse way.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Every car handles perfectly safely - if driven within its limits. It's those limits that vary between designs. And, of course, the ability of the driver to keep it under control if it does loose adhesion.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

My experience is quite the reverse. I've bought a number of consumer items based on their recommendations, and been perfectly happy. The only way I'd be certain they were wrong would have been to buy another make at the same time and subject it to the same sort of use. Which is a nonsense, so I left that bit to them.

Do you actually read the full article carefully and any follow up data? What you wish of a car may well be different to the average - and their views are meant for the average.

That's a bit like saying the Bloggs Supreme is a wonderful car in every way - when in fact if broke down during the test, and not mentioning it. Or did you expect them to falsify data?

Perhaps you'd give an example of a material fact being left out?

Do they tell lies about these issues? Or merely give views you don't like?

Or the said products change?

That seems more of an issue with 'OH' than Which.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

How long have you got? Every single copy of Practical Classics (the only one I read regularly) has schoolboy howlers in every episode. Others are equally as bad.

If you're really interested in the history of a car like the Beetle, go to the suitable car club - they'll have all the data, and in some cases more accurate than the original maker could supply. Very much the case with BL who didn't keep accurate records.

[sweetheart]

Oh absolutely. They are still making claims about my present car - a Mazda - in the current articles . Since this will be my third Mazda ( punctuated by a series of Clio's), and since I am driving the car I know they are wrong. The car is excellent and has a good track record. But as I said the sameple is made up of members ( dim wits like me) who write in and tell them about cars. If the members dont pick a car, it doesnt get feedback.

I was signed in to take part in the survey. I kept my diary. I logged in but the log in failed. I reported it. I was told a number of people had similar problems. It was not fixed and by the time we are able to access the log in the survey was closed. I wonder how many of the small samples were locked out?

Also it is often the case that those with complaints will sing twice as loudly as those with bouquests. ( actually I think its about 7 times acording to the research) Add that to a skewed middle class sample of subscribers and what do you really have in terms of bias?>

I certainly think they do not present the full facts.

No, but their views do often.

Indeed it may but had Which? not recommended it he would not have gone there. I dont think they were appropriate in suggesting it in the first place really.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I'm not quite sure how you expect them to do a feature on member's cars if those members either don't have that particular car, or choose not to report on it? Or am I missing something? Or are you saying they ignored the data you sent to them when it was requested?

As regards reliability issues, you'll find examples of even the most unreliable car which lives its life fault free. And with cars becoming even more reliable, that percentage gets higher. What is more telling is if a member would recommend their car to a friend.

You're suggesting some form of conspiracy?

But do you know the full facts? As regards 'green' issues I doubt anyone does. So all you're really saying is you disagree with them. Which is fair enough. But then you aren't forced to by it. It's rather like buying the Mail and then complaining the editorials are too right wing.

I'd expect them to if the product changes which happens often with financial ones. The Bloggs SuperSaver offers the best interest rate one month, but not the next. So the recommendation changes.

FFS, it's a subscription only publication. Not the law of the land.

[dennis]

I had one!

It was essentially a cart spring across the top of the axle bolted to the top of the diff. The only other bits were the trailing arms bolted to the cross chassis IIRC. The actual axles pivoted next to the diff on rubber doughnuts.

You could change the spring to one from a spitfire and get a bit better road holding.

The spring forced the inside wheel to actually lift off the ground. Hard to do on a car with independent suspension.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I don't suppose you ever pushed it.

A sports car body and an extra carb on a morris minor was the Austin healey sprite.

Definitely tail happy. Bu that was the fun of it.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Ah, but a judicious anti-roll bar could tame all that..my spitfire - which I still have, had one added..controllable 4 wheel drifts..

[The Natural Philosopher]

As do McPhersons struts on the front of - say - a contemporaneous Ford.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Exactly. That is independent suspension.

You could do that in any car: I have done that on a Jagaur XKR. that is not the problem. The problem was that as you loaded up the outer wheel it actually moved OUTWARDS this increasing the loading, that made the onset of a rear wheel skid very likely. Balancing that out in a real life situation took a lot of practice. Best to induce the skid deliberately with a hard yank on the wheel, then balance it on the steering and throttle.

Done correctly it could ouut corner a fixed rear axle,. but the result was always snappy and harder to drive fast.

Beetles had very similar rear suspension. But better weight distribution. Especially with the mandatory tool box or sackk of cement in the front boot.

Just as the Triumph had the Spitfire, the Morris had MG and Austin Healy sports versions,. the beetle had the Porsche. A triumph of development over bad design, since the modern porsche is still basically a hugely modified beetle in drag.