OT - Which ?

[ARWadsworth]

The rest of the Mini Metro was also shit so why pick on the gearbox.

[Huge]

So far as I remember.

Because they're morons?

No synchro on first in a Metro. It *will* go in if you push hard enough.

[Tim Streater]

Really? My first Mini (circa 1965) had no synchro on first but I thought they fixed that a few years later. Odd that this still persisted all the way to the Metro - 15 years later or so.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Yet another irrational dislike of Which. Did you actually read the full article - or are just reporting what you read elsewhere?

When attempting to change down into it at maximum speed in that gear? I doubt that - unless you balance the revs carefully. In which case no damage will occur. Very powerful synchromesh might just baulk it from doing so if the clutch isn't used.

However, Which had a valid point. Most cars by this time has all synchromesh boxes. Including most other BL products. For many many years. And it's not unknown for a driver to try and select the wrong gear.

[geoff]

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)" writes

Point of pedancy ... sellers'

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I *thought* the all synchro A series 'box came in with the Austin 1100. Long before the Metro, which used pretty well the same power unit. But I could be wrong. BL certainly converted the B Series 'box to all synchro for the Austin 1800.

Later Metros source the box from a different maker. Probably to go 5 speed.

[Roger Chapman]

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My parents took Which when it first came out. I could be wrong (it is after all a long time ago) but I would have put the start of Which some time in the late 50s with Motoring Which not later than the early 60s.

I was put off Motoring Which by its first choice of best Buy - VW Beetle. If I remember the timeline correctly that would have been the

1200 model with a reputation for poor handling and poisoning its occupants with exhaust gases from the heater if it couldn't kill its occupants in a more conventional manner. A car widely advertised at the time as being reliable enough to be driven flat out (70mph) all day which is not exactly surprising given the puny 34 bhp available.

[ARWadsworth]

I do not believe that a German manufacturer could think of such a thing

[Dave Plowman (News)]

William Boddy - the editor of Motor Sport for many years and a very respected and knowledgeable motoring journalist - also very much liked the Beetle in the '50s, and owned one. Most small UK designed cars of that time would not survive being driven flat out for long - it was before motorways. 34 bhp was about average for a small car in those days. For such a dreadful car as you seem to think it remained in production for a very long time and of course has a modern lookalike. Where is the UK equivalent? The Mini came some 10 years after the Beetle.

[Andy Champ]

My first car was a 1976 Mini, and had synchro on all 4 gears. That's older than any Metro.

Andy

[Dave Plowman (News)]

That's what I thought. So if Which did try and change down into 1st at the maximum speed it could do in that gear and it broke, it's a fault. As you should be able to. As you can too into a crash gear by double declutching.

[Roger Chapman]

There is no accounting for taste and I have no recollection of Bill Boddy and Motorsport even though I read the magazine for many years. However every dog has its day and the Beetle might well have been a reasonable choice when the only practical alternative to a bubble car at the bottom end of the market for new cars was a Morris 8 (E), A30 or sit up and beg Ford but if my memory serves me correctly the Beetle was the Which best Buy in the early 60s by which time the Mini and the 105E Anglia (both introduced in 1959) were well established in the market and even in the 50s a Morris Minor would have been a better choice for the discerning motorist.

The Beetles antecedents are rooted in the late 30s even if the British public didn't get the chance to own one until 1946 and the power output of the early examples was even worse - somewhere in the low 20s IIRC.

[geoff]

ISTR there was a program on TV ages ago about how the Royal Engineers set about the KDF wagen after the war to turn it into a saleable product to help kick-start german industry

[Tim Streater]

Worse than that. There was a British Army major in charge in some way who had the chance to turn Volkswagen into a British company. He decided the Beetle would never catch on and turned the chance down.

[Roger Chapman]

I seem to remember the tale was that it was one (or more of the major British car manufacturers) who said that the Beetle wasn't a commercial prospect and declined to take it on.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I can't believe you read Motor Sport and don't know of William Boddy. I haven't read it for ages, but believe he was still a contributor right up to his death at age 98 a couple of weeks ago.

[Tim Streater]

You're more than likely correct - my memory of the story was a bit vague.

But either way, eh! Oops!

[Dave Plowman (News)]

BMC repeated it with the Mini. Seems they lost money on every one sold.

[Tony Bryer]

Rootes,

[Roger Chapman]

reminded me of the Motor Sport connection.

I have been admitting to short term memory loss for years now but it take an event like this to remind me that there are huge chunks of missing memory that doesn't fit the description "short term".