OT: 'Sport' impacting wildlife? ;-(

[T i m]

Out walking the dogs earlier and we came across a goose sat in a gap in the hedge by the river bank and the path. It didn't move away when we stepped in front of it and only reared up when one of the dogs spotted it (or was surprised by it as we all just came across it)?

I gathered both dogs up and moved them away and daughter examined the goose and one of it's legs looked injured and the other was hanging off. ;-(

*Luckily*, I used to work with a guy who became a volunteer wildlife warden, I had his number so rang him and he was able to respond and agreed to meet us asap.

We walked about a mile (daughter carrying the goose with it protesting now and again by biting her bare arm), met up with my mate at the road and he took it to meet up with someone who had picked up a Moorhen with a damaged leg (same cause) and would take both to a sanctuary on the Thames somewhere where they will get veterinary treatment and safe convalescence.

Apparently, whilst the birds are free to leave the sanctuary once brought to full strength, many of them don't, or go but come and go.

Apparently, the damage to both legs was done by fishing line, another 'sport' where animals are exploited for 'fun' and with the side affect that often kills and injures many other animals every year [1].

Cheers, T i m

[1] And not just non-human animals, humans as well. Years ago I was out with my tandem kayak (that I built (diy content <g>)), mate was in the front and I was in the back. We were paddling along the river and keeping away from the fishermen when suddenly mate starts back paddling fast ... and as we slow down I see a tree branch bending overhead?

It turns out there was some fishing line and hook hanging down from a tree and it just caught under his nose! Luckily, it didn't actually go into his skin (hooks were all barbed in those days) or his eye.

We recovered all the line and disposed of it properly at home ... and regularly found stray floats, often with hook line and sinkers still attached.

p.s. I *just* got an update from my mate. The vet had to amputate one of the gooses legs but he thinks the other (once the fishing line was removed) should eventually recover.

[Jethro_uk]

Nothing to do with sport, but a goose ...

Last year, an April Sunday afternoon, was at the kitchen window (which looks onto the road) and there is a f****ng goose walking along the pavement. Cool as you please. Totally unfazed by a couple of cars that drove past. It paused at the corner where we are for a few minutes. No signs of distress or injury. Then it carried on walking along the pavement to the end of the cull de sac. I followed it for a bit and it didn't seem bothered (didn't even notice me).

We do live near a reservoir, but AFAIK there aren't any geese that nest there. There are a couple of ponds where they do, but they are at least 2 miles away - as the geese flies.

Still have the video I shot.

[Tim Lamb]

In message <rlk3vn$kof$ [e-mail], Jethro_uk <jethro [e-mail] writes

Recipe for cooking Canada Goose:- Thoroughly clean and prepare the bird. Place in the oven on a suitable roasting tin with a standard house brick. After 2 hours or so, throw the Goose away and eat the brick!

[Brian Gaff (Sofa]

Yes every year the call goes out, retrieve your broken line and also do not use lead weights etc. Every year, just like the idiots that get gored by stags in the Rut, the bad fisherpersons just don't do the right thing. So why is not fishing line, bio degradable? Brian

[T i m]

Erm ... did you miss the bit about discarded fishing line? Line discarded by 'sport' anglers (they weren't going to eat their catch, just drag it out the water and put it back again)???

They can be very 'bold', especially when brought up near humans who regularly feed them.

Daughter recently rescued a couple of signets that were (at the time she got them), caught up in the undergrowth near a busy road.

The suggestion was that in some lighting conditions, wet roads can look like rivers and hence why they can land on them.

Anyway, she managed to extract said signets from said undergrowth and took them in the van (two different occasions, possibly the same bird) to the local river and it / they didn't seem at all phased by 1) being carried and 2) going in the van.

As they got near the river it spotted a small flock of swans and signets on the river and it's legs started to go and obviously recognised them as it's family, so she placed it on the riverbank and it launched itself into the water and was reunited.

The email address is valid if it's sendable. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

But the problem is, in many cases they *can't* retrieve lost gear because of the difficulty with access, even if they had a boat and were allowed to use it on those waters?

So, if that was me and the case, I wouldn't do it. [1]

In many cases I'm sure it's more that they are out of their known territory (the people) and they are unaware of the risks / consequences.

Why do they do it in the first place?

Nearly every fisherman I have seen of late looks like they are camped up for a week and I often smell pot as we walk past so I'm not sure if the fishing is partly a 'front' in the first place.

Cheers, T i m

[1] I used to build / race / sail RC models but *wouldn't* do so, even if it was permitted, if I wasn't 100% sure I could recover it in the event of a malfunction.

So, modeling lakes are generally wadeable or if we have specific rights to say race sailboats on a generic lake, we would also have the right to use a small, human powered inflatable 'rescue boat'.

[Fredxx]

This is how your broken record sounds.

[Fredxx]

So which is the more important. Improve the lot for birds and other animals by banning fishing, or banning meat?

[Jethro_uk]

Yes. And ?

If a post is OT, then surely - by definition - any reply to that post is in itself OT. If not from the OP, from the forum generally ....

[Jethro_uk]

It briefly crossed my mind ... but generally there's a reason city dwellers leave such matters to the experts ...

[The Natural Philosopher]

Rubbish. I have eaten Canada goose and it is as Bill Oddie once said of the dodo 'f****ng delicious'

[T i m]

You said: "Nothing to do with sport, but a goose ..."

So ... no 'Sport fishing', no goose having to have it's leg amputated and the other one treated because of line discarded by sports fisherman?

Yes. And?

Sorry, what's any of that got to do with your statement above?

The topic was pretty clear, the content was pretty clear and so the conclusion should be pretty clear. Either, be 100% sure you don't leave anything behind that are likely to negatively impact any wildlife (including releasing balloons that livestock might ingest or littering that could trap sea life) or if you can't, don't do it at all.

Especially if the only 'fun' is gleaned by one party (the fisherman) and causes pain and suffering to innocent creatures (fish / wild birds).

Surely the spirit of my post should be supported by animals who say they care for animals?

Cheers, T i m

[Jethro_uk]

Is there much of a difference between "goose" and "Canada goose" ?

[Jethro_uk]

Yawn.

It's encounters with people like you that rather made me wish I had caught the ambulatory goose I saw, snapped it's neck, dressed it (that would have been a YouTube search and a half) cooked it and eaten it.

You don't like meat. We get it. And maybe you will win some converts with increasingly graphic and grisly details of where meat comes from. But I'd humbly suggest that this ain't the newsgroup that would be the best place for your efforts.

[williamwright]

No, fishing is a sport. Beating a dog is counter-productive. Pigs are food. No logical inconsistency there.

Consider: Keeping someone prisoner in your cellar so you can sexually abuse them is wrong. Keeping someone prisoner in a prison because they have kept someone prisoner in their cellar so they could sexually abuse them is absolutely fine.

Bill

[T i m]

Hard work is it, trying to keep up? <weg>

What, people against cruelty to animals you mean?

How bizarre?

WTF has that got to do with this? This was all about the *CRUELTY* animals are exposed to because of a 'sport', not only directly (sport fishing) but incidentally (discarded kit[1]). This was *nothing* to do with *eating* either fish nor fowl.

The facts that have been out there all along you mean but many prefer to ignore because it's 'easier' (for them, not the animals obviously)?

So where would you humbly suggest would be? A vegan forum, a beef / dairy farmers forum?

See, the sort of people who might be most likely to actually make a difference (even by cutting back, all be it not ideal) are the sorts of people who may well have been doing it the longest 'because' and who may possibly make some changes, once the issue has been raised?

It's obviously something that many feel uneasy about, judging by the number of people trying to put up barriers or arguments as to why they couldn't stop eating meat, when ITRW the only thing stopping them is their taste buds and disconnection of the consequences of their actions.

Now, if someone is willing to go to an abattoir, kill a chicken, pig, lamb of calf and butcher it and take some meat home from the shop at the end, can't respect their lives and so have a different moral code to those of us who couldn't (or wouldn't want to). And that's ignoring all the other stuff that impacts those who *aren't* breeding, killing and eating animals.

And I'm not talking about someone stuck on a desert island with just a pig, I'm talking about the man billions of people who regularly walk though the isles of supermarkets and past *tonnes* of perfectly good and nutritious food that didn't cause any animal pain and suffering?

So, which side are you on, do you not care about any animals, only care about some animals (and why?) or care about all animals (in which case, why are you not supporting me here)?

Cheers, T i m

[1] It's the exact same problem on commercial fishing of course, not only all the by catch that dies in the process but the other animals that get caught up and die in discarded nets and other gear.

[Dave Plowman (News]

In the olympics yet?

[The Natural Philosopher]

yes. domestic goose is much more fat. And blander

[Richard]

:)

[T i m]

If it were ... and judging by Bills instance in his 'right' to eat any animal he (arbitrarily it seems) chooses, he could end up a Gold medal winner in the sport of 'Shooting fish in a barrel'. ;-)

Maybe he could push for the sport of 'Gassing pigs in a cage' ...

"Sport

1. an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

Sporting

1. fair and generous in one's behaviour or treatment of others, especially in a contest. "it was jolly sporting of you to let me have first go"

So, tricking an animal with food before putting a hook though it's lip and dragging it out of it's natural element is 'sporting' in what way?

What would be 'sporting' is to walk past a nice stream, think 'I could catch fish from there' but not do so.

Or giving them a 'sporting chance' by diving in and catching them with your bare hands. ;-)

But to be fair, Bill has stated that he thinks fishing is cruel so that's a good sign, now we just need him to think about his logical inconsistency re why he wouldn't beat then eat a dog (as they regularly do in other cultures) but will gas a pig, have it's throat cut and eat it?

I wonder if a wild pig and a wild dog appeared at his house and bout accepted food and shelter from him ... and demonstrated their ability to be sensitive, caring, trusting, intelligent and sentient beings, he would then kill the pig but protect the dog?

I'm guessing he wouldn't feed either from fish from his pond?

Cheers, T i m