[OT] Smart meters

[Dave Liquorice]

Up to 53 million in 30 million homes and business by the end of 2020.

End of 2020 is 894 days from today, 21 July 2018. Lets say half of those 30 million homes/business's have already got a smart meter meaning a mear 15 million need to be installed. That's only 16,778 per day, every day, from now to the end 2020.

Lets say an installer can do six in a day, that's only just over an hour each, including travel and a break. That means there has to be at least 2,797 installers who are going to work *every* *single*

*one* of those 894 days from now to the end of 2020...

Saw job ad for "up skilling" from a Smart Gas Meter installer to a Dual Fuel Smart Meter Installer with a pay packet of £29k...

[Andy Burns]

Against an average of under 250W the green/amber/red display only turns red when the oven, kettle, toaster, coffee machine or microwave are in use, so the iron would be noticed ... but I'd probably hear it clicking on/off anyway.

[Dave Liquorice]

Quite agree. Even without the masking effect of large loads you still need to have a reasonable idea of what is "normal". Do any of the remote units have a decent resolution graph of use over at least the last six hours? By "decent resolution" I mean a plot of peak and average consumption at over minute intervals.

That's what my "home brew" smart meter does and that can show at a glance if somthing like an iron has been left on, or the coffee machine or a stupid kettle with a "keep warm" feature:

[Fredxx]

When an iron 'clicks' 'on' it will be taking 750W or so, so I think it might be 'noticed'! :-)

[Max Demian]

So they can jack up the rate to an unfeasibly high level just when you want to cook some grub.

[Jack James]

They don?t determine the rate either. The plan you sign up for sets that when the suppliers start having time of use tariffs. And the supplier doesn?t charge what they like either, if they have to specify what rate they will charge in each time band at the time you sign up for that particular plan.

[Steve Walker]

Except, for many people, those are not time insensitive.

When your child comes home from school with a dirty blazer, PE kit, etc. and needs it the next day, you do not want to be waiting 'til late on to wash, dry and iron it.

If you have eaten late, you do not want to be messing about emptying and loading the dishwasher when you are ready to go to bed either. You do it when you get in after work, to clear the kitchen ready for preparing food.

Time based electricity pricing will dictate when people can carry out parts of their daily life and will impact particularly on workers, parents and carers.

SteveW

[Steve Walker]

Time is a very limited resource, especially for working parents or carers. Increasing their costs or eating into their limited time by financially pressuring them into adjusting their schedule to suit the power companies is simply wrong.

SteveW

[Steve Walker]

Weekly? Clothes, towels, bedding, school clothes, PE kit, swimming kit - pretty well nightly for a family of five! Wash overnight and you just have a bunch of wet clothing sat in the machine in the morning, so you then need to dry it when you get back from work the next night. Wash it late on and dry it overnight and you go against fire brigade advice and have to get up early to do the ironing for the whole family before work.

They are not the big loads. Washing, drying, cooking and heating are the big ones - and the ones where time matters.

SteveW

[Steve Walker]

Or a USB port for a wifi dongle, as many people dont have their PCs right by the display.

SteveW

[Steve Walker]

As irons are often 2.5 to 3kW, yes.

Whether this is really a uselful function of a smartmeter - doubtful.

SteveW

[Steve Walker]

You need to take another look at modern irons - 2.5 to 3kW is more likely.

SteveW

[Steve Walker]

And that can be done with a simple clip-on sensor and remote display, without the cost of replacing millions of meters and without enabling power companies to penalise people for having a normal life where cooking, washing, drying, etc. fit into life, rather than the supplier's schedule.

SteveW

[Fredxx]

Hmm, just looked at mine and it says 1600W, it seems we both might be wrong.

[Steve Walker]

Just take a look at the first page of traditional irons on the Currys website - very few are below 2.2kW

SteveW

[Jack James]

Few are in that situation. Most have enough of a clue to have more than one copy of PE kit and so don?t need to be waiting till late on to do that stuff and don?t put the blazer in the washing machine anyway.

Only a fool runs the dishwasher after every evening meal.

But you don?t have to run it then, you are free to run it just before you go to bed with a delayed start programmed too.

Only those who don?t have enough of a clue to have enough PE kit so that that it has to be washed, dried and ironed overnight.

[Jack James]

Not when they get significantly cheaper electricity that way.

[Jack James]

Doesn't change anything if you do it daily.

Wash overnight and you just

Or have a combination washer and drier if you wash that much.

Wash it

Not with a combination washer and drier.

and

Nope, just do that the next night.

Not with most washing, drying and dishwashing.

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 00:53:49 on Sun, 22 Jul

2018, Steve Walker remarked:

The suppliers of railway transport quite successfully force people to organise their lives around when the train companies schedule peak vs off-peak ticketing.

Conversely, with the main extra demand for electricity predicted to be charging EVs overnight, the electricity companies might want to persuade

*domestic* customers to use electricity for washing/drying/cooking during the day rather than overnight.

[PeterC]

The power of a device is often obvious, e.g. the 1600W iron, 3 kW kettle or

7.5 kW shower; the energy is another matter, but some can be timed and others are more difficult - a freezer would need a plug-in monitor.

There was a proggy-for-dimlows on that TV, where the presenter ran a shower for the full time and looked at the meters. I timed a shower, knew the power (my 8.5 kW unit has 3.75 kW and 4.75 kW elements), so energy for the time and power is simple mental arithmatic; water is: turn on shower, stick a 1 li jug under it, time to fill. If the incoming water temperature is right to run the lower element on minimal volumetric rate, I can have a shower for approx. 7.5 li and 0.25 kWh (I hate high velocity water jets).