New technology wind turbine for TNP

[harry]

feel sure he'll love this one.

[newshound]

I'm sure he won't waste his time discussing it. Mature Wikipedia posts are a very valuable resource. This one is so immature it is not worth reading.

[The Natural Philosopher]

" One prototype has powered two LEDs, a radio, and a clock (separately) using wind generated from a household fan"

right so push a couple of hundred watts into the fan, and get out 120mW?

YOu really are clueles harruy.

The Betz limit governs how much energy you can get OUT of the air, and the swept area of the device used to get it times the wind speed cubed determines the power IN it.

No amount of technical chicanery and snake oil will get more

[The Natural Philosopher]

well it was worth making the simple point that you cant do better than physics says you can, irrespective of the technology.

So much green snake oil implies that some new technology will be MUCH BETTER than existing mature (or in fact, in the case of wind - museum class) technology.

People who believe thus display merely their utter ignorance of physics.

[Andy Champ]

Ok, so who has read "The subways of tazoo"?

Andy

[John Williamson]

[John Rumm]

Add to which that most of the problems with wind power result from its intermittency, and its low power density. Not something a better turbine can do much about.

[Huge]

FX: Waves.

Big SF fan, me. Loved the Unorthodox Engineers stuff.

[Steve Firth]

Also the Tau Transportation series that started with Lambda-1.

[Dave Liquorice]

Whilst I agree in general and the energy availabilty from this thing is miniscule it could have applications in places that don't need much energy. It is mechanically much simpler than a rotational turbine/generator. Thinking that todays ultra effcient LEDs could run for a very long time with a rechargeable battery (or just a several Farad capacitor) charged from one of these. I'm thinking of indicator type LED, these chuck out plenty of light for naff all current. I dropped one down to 50uA (micro Amps) and it was still too bright as an indicator. If the choice is no light or enough to see by...

I wonder how much noise it produces? I'm sure we've all heard a ratchet strap on a truck vibrating in the wind...

[geoff]

In message , harry writes

Harry, you have SO missed the problem with wind

when it doesn't blow, you get no output

It cannot, therefore, be depended on in any way, shape or form to generate power

However you want to dress it up, the argument is the same

[Bob Eager]

+1. Only wish there were more. I also loved the one with the tiny planet orbiting the surface of another one at virtually zero height.

[Gib Bogle]

That doesn't make sense. Power is still power, even when it is not continuously generated. The cost of wind power might make it infeasible, but that's another issue.

[John Williamson]

The problem with a source of power which is intermittent and cannot be scheduled is that you need to have some other form of 100% reliable power on standby.

Tide power and hydroelectricity have predictable operating times, so no standby is needed while they are operating except for breakdowns, wind can go from zero to full and back to zero again on a timescale measured in minutes, so for a gigawatt of wind power, you need a gigawatt of fossil fuel generator on hot standby, up to temperature and turning, but not generating. This is why wind power saves little in CO2 emissions.

It's almost the same problem with solar power, although you only need about 50% of the installed solar power base on standby during daylight hours, with the added disadvantage that solar power stops working effectively just before sunset until just after dawn, so the standby plant needs to be half installed capacity during the day, but at full power during the night, all ignoring differing demand profiles at different times, which make the situation worse as far as generation efficiency goes.

[Java Jive]

"Over a lifetime of 20 years, it is expected to produce 100-200 Wh, or

1 mW average.[5]"

Will that be sufficient to offset the energy used to c>

I feel sure he'll love this one.

[Andy Burns]

2p worth of mains electricity over 20 years, even with harry's fantasy pricing of 50p/unit by the next decade, call it 10p worth.

[Tim Lamb]

Wiki doesn't show the design but I guess an aerofoil which could be

*inverted* at the end of each oscillation would have the best chance of useful output. Probably invented by someone who has tried to sleep on a moored yacht.

Not quite as esoteric as moving atoms by light rays:-)

>

[Gazz]

you have it wrong,

You put the devise in front of harry's gob, and tell him you are thinking of solar panels for your roof, he'll keep the thing powered for a few weeks waffeling on about how much he loves his and how much money he is screwing out of everyone else,

[Java Jive]

[Andy Burns]

No it's my estimate of the value of electricity it will provide during it's lifetime, agreeing with you that there's no way it's can be economic, even if they cost £1 from eBay with free postage from Hong Kong.