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[OT] Smart meters

They won't. It'll be like Economy7, where they increase the peak rate to make the off-peak rate look less.

Reply to
Max Demian
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Managing demand is hardly 'coercion'. Sensible use of limited resources.

Reply to
mechanic

Arguable I think - but which electricity supply co. is actually pricing at different times in this way as of today?

Reply to
mechanic

It's coercion if there isn't free choice (FSV of 'free').

We're talking about commercial companies looking after their bottom line here, not some dedicated greenie wanting to save the planet.

Reply to
Max Demian

most business rates work like that.

Reply to
charles

"When does Economy 10 go on and off?

Economy 10 times differ depending on where you live and which energy supplier you're with.

For example, there could be:

Three off-peak hours in the afternoon (e.g. 1pm - 4pm) Two in the evening (e.g. 8pm - 10pm) Five overnight (e.g. midnight - 5am)"

Google for further detail.

Reply to
Roland Perry

We have a small kitchen with limited storage area so don't have room for vast amounts of crockery.

We have a slim line dishwasher because (a) there are only the two of us and (b) we don't have room for a full size one.

When we finish our evening meal, the dishwasher is full, so we run it and dry everything so that we have clean crockery for the automatic tea-maker.

We only run it if it is full. If it isn't, which does happen on occasion, then the crockery for the next morning is hand washed and the dishwasher is run during the following day after it is full again.

What is foolish about that?

Reply to
Terry Casey

In tests, the novelty of smart meters can last as long as a month, but is usually less than a week.

The kettle is the funny one. If you ask most people how much it costs to boil a kettle, you rarely get an answer under 10p, and often much more. When people do learn how much it actually costs, they completely stop bothering with any savings.

At the moment there is no advantage to consumers from smart meters - the advanages are all for the industry. That will need to change if they are to become effective, and people should refuse to have them fitted until it does.

Reply to
Andrew Gabriel

That is one way of looking at it. But I don't think smart meters are intended to benefit power companies (by which I assume you mean their shareholders, managers and employees). They would in principle be happy to be paid to supply ever more energy bought from operators of ever more generation capacity in order to meet ever higher peak demands (as the population grows and carbon targets switch demand from gas/oil to electricity). But as we have seen in recent years, that's unlikely to happen in practice without much higher prices or - in a highly regulated market - government guarantees or subsidies.

And then there's the cost of the distribution network to carry an every growing load.

So, if you rule out time-sensitive tariffs or other load management measures, the people who end up paying are (a) the general body or taxpayers or (b) the general body of customers. A question then is whether it is it better that they subsidise the pressures on working parents and carers (and other who cannot flex their demand) by keeping tariffs flat and demand unlimited, or whether it is better to recognise those pressures in other ways (eg child benefit, tax credits, free child care) and use price sensitivity as one component of demand management - in much the same way it is used to manage demand for other things such as commuting.

Reply to
Robin

In message , at 12:50:15 on Sat, 21 Jul

2018, Harry Bloomfield remarked:

It's tempting to suggest that only single persons with serious personal hygiene issues can make do with one wash per week.

Reply to
Roland Perry

Queen Elizabeth (I) had a bath once a year, whether she needed it or not.

Reply to
charles

In message , at 17:00:34 on Sun, 22 Jul 2018, charles remarked:

The meme at hi-tech trade shows in Las Vegas is that geeks arrive with one t-shirt and a 20 dollar bill, and don't change either of them all week.

Reply to
Roland Perry

Don't need vast amounts, just enough to allow you to run the dishwasher every few days, when the dishwasher is full.

So you can still have a dishwasher which allows you to specify when it actually starts washing the dishes, when the electricity supplier charges the least for the electricity.

so we

See above.

Reply to
Jack James

Mine has a USB port but not for a wifi dongle. You can make a USB over wifi link using a Pi zero W easy enough. I'm running two ATM, one for a weather station, one for a Seneye.

You can also monitor the actual radio link and gather the data.

Reply to
dennis

The PE kit is expensive - shorts, socks, tee-shirt, sweatshirt, hoody ... all with the school's logo and the kids grow out of it quickly.. Why on earth would you want to pay for that lot multiple times over.

Blazers are machine washable, kids have to wear them all the time in school, so things can get spilt on them - esepcially at lunchtime. They need to be clean for the next day.

The point was that having eaten late (which myself and my wife do, although our children eat earlier - there is little that all five of us eat in common), we do not want to load the dishwasher at all before going to bed. It can wait until the next day.

ie: most parents. Very few buy more than one kit per child, especially of expensive, logoed items, which are all the school will accept.

SteveW

Reply to
Steve Walker

Do you really think that it is not going to go that way once everyone is on smart meters and the companies have the ability to charge this way?

SteveW

Reply to
Steve Walker

Do you really think that parents, for whom both time and money are issues (ie: most of them) won't be pressured into trying to save a bit more by eating and washing out of peak, getting to bed a bit later and then not getting enough sleep?

SteveW

Reply to
Steve Walker

We've had one and we use another when we go on holiday. Our experience is they cannot cope with the same sized load as separate machines, they do not dry as well and they cost more to run due to the poor drying.

How do you do that with the items that you only buy one of (blazers, PE kit, etc, that is needed that day?

SteveW

Reply to
Steve Walker

And huge numbers of people have to pay a fortune because they need to be there by a particular time and cannot change to off peak.

Adding in peak charging for electricity is hitting them throughout all parts of their life.

SteveW

Reply to
Steve Walker

So you don?t have to wash, dry and iron it so urgently.

And growing out of it isnt relevant, any decent school has a used uniform exchange system.

So have more than one.

But if the electricity is cheap enough it may well make sense to load it before heading off to bed.

I don?t believe that. And the PE kit doesn?t get worn every day anyway.

Reply to
Jack James

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