OT: Ping squeezebox players?

[T i m]

Hi all,

I'm asking here because I am aware we are a diverse bunch of practical people (after posting elsewhere by mistake). ;-)

Just a background question really to anyone who plays or has had reasonable contact with a squeezebox of some sort (concertina or accordion etc).

The thought is to get something for daughter (27), who is a pretty good multi-instrumentalist (recorder, piano, oboe, tenor sax, acoustic / bass guitar etc) but who doesn't seem to be doing much atm but we would like her to hear her playing something, not only because we like to hear her playing but for her to 'keep her hand in' plus to have yet another string to her (musical) bow. ;-)

Now, we don't want to spend too much on this and I'm aware quality instruments don't usually come cheap so I'm open to all / any advice re which instrument type / make / spec that might fit the bill please?

I don't think we are looking at a full size piano accordion, simply because of the size (more for storage than her ability to manage it physically ... and cost (especially new)) but something that you could play both the melody and bass on and would allow her to just play something by herself that would be 'musical'?

I'm thinking the sort of thing that on it's own would be sufficient to get people singing along around a campfire etc, like an acoustic guitar etc. ;-)

New if not too expensive if that was the best way to go, second hand if that wasn't likely to cost fortunes to get repaired, maintained or tuned but got us a better 'quality' instrument.

Cheers, T i m

[newshound]

A mate of mine used to be a fairly serious melodion / melodeon player. This is a bit like a smaller and more manageable piano accordion. His collection comes from as far apart as the USA, Italy, and Eastern Europe, I'll ask him for more details next time I see him. He also plays concertina; there are English and German forms, which superficially look similar but are musically rather different: details here

The English version was invented by Sir Charles Wheatstone (the "bridge" man, but IIRC his family were musical instrument makers).

Possibly worth talking to someone and maybe trying some: any folk clubs or folk musicians locally?

As always, loads of stuff now on YouTube.

Personally I think I would always start with second hand. The hardware is something you can DIY rather more easily than brass or woodwind!

[S Viemeister]

Hamish Bayne (one of the original MacCalmans) makes excellent concertinas.

He was living and working in Orkney, last I heard.

[T i m]

Oh, that could be a good compromise, I'll check it out thanks.

Thank you, that would be very nice (and this email works if he would care to contact me directly etc).

Yes, I did get as far as that and considered an 'English duet' might meet my (naive) requirements but I though someone 'who knows' could tell me why I was wrong. ;-)

Interesting. It's funny how often this sort of thing is the case eh.

There couple be and will look into that.

True.

Agreed, especially if ...

Well, that was something I thought of after my post and whilst I have done many things on most of her instruments over the years, I agree that this looks like something I might be able to do more on (subject them being something that is supposed to come apart for maintenance etc). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

Sounds expensive (unless he also supplies a 'budget' range made in China). ;-)

Nice life, if you like that sort of thing (and can make a nice living making and selling Concertinas). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[Clive Arthur]

You can but a good quality new *chromatic* mouth organ for around £125. A Hohner Super Chromonica 48 is a well made instrument, I have several similar dating from WWII, still working well.

Advantage is size, of course. Also said to be good for the lungs - I think it's the only instrument which you suck as well as blow.[1]

If it's singing along, then the key of G is better IMO, the much more common key of C is too high/low for most people. A chromatic harmonica can be played in any key, it has a major scale which can be shifted up a semitone by pressing a slide button. It's much easier to play in the basic key though, especially for a beginner.

Don't buy cheap, too disappointing. Diatonic harmonicas are good too, but I think a musician would better appreciate the range of a chromatic without the need to learn special embouchure techniques for bending notes.

If you ever see an old bloke stuck in a traffic jam playing a mouth organ, give me a wave.

FWIW, squeezeboxes often use the same tuning, push for blow and pull for suck.

[1] Quiet at the back!

Cheers

[ss]

Second hand on ebay from £30 upward, may require tuning or some DIY but ask the ? before buying.

If you buy childs then they grow out of it and you then buy a 2nd one. Buy adult then they grow in to it, and do get used to the size.

Wife played full size from around 9 years old, although hasnt played now for last 40 years, but can still knock out a tune.

[Nick Odell]

How much is "not very much?"

The portable Indian Harmonium is becoming quite a cool instrument to play in folk circles these days and new ones from India are in the low hundreds.

Apart from that, you won't normally get anything very nice that is new. Concertinas and melodeons are great fun. Good ones can cost thousands but there are a few nice second hand ones around. Worth reading up on the different types before you buy anything - or even discussing it with daughter first.

Piano Accordions are still popular in places like Italy and Paraguay but people are trying to get rid of them here and nice second hand ones sell for not too much money. But I have to ask: regardless of the size issue, do you really want to get your daughter something that is falling out of fashion in the UK?

Finally, if you are willing to remortgage the house and car, how about a nice tango-player's bandoneon? That wa-oomph sound just can't be found anywhere else!

Disclaimer: I'm a stringed musical instrument specialist and the only string on an accordion or similar is the one to strap in on with.

Nick

[T i m]

Thanks and of course.

Understood. She's quite used to hefting lumps of tree about so can't see that being an issue.

This is the shame (for us and here etc), that she has such skills (had the highest music qualifications in her secondary school) and isn't doing anything with them (well, atm anyway).

Whilst I was reasonably good on a descant recorder (high marks for tone and timing at the CoOp festival ), I couldn't read music and so just 'remembered' the tune once Mum had guided me though it a couple of times.

Daughter can read dots, tab or play stuff by ear, the last bit not to be assumed for all musicians apparently? [1]

Cheers, T i m

[1] We went to a Yamaha Musical Instruments open day (at Knebworth House I think) where you could try most of their range. Daughter quite liked the big Clavinova's and asked their muso if he could 'play something'. Much to our (joint) / confusion apparently he couldn't without the music. It surprised me because of daughter being able to play by ear (and was probably in her early teens then), and I could, I thought everyone could! ;-)

[T i m]

She has had (and played briefly) a couple of (small) Hohnor harmonicas Clive but I'm not sure it's 'her thing'.

I hasn't really though of that but her Mum and sister are good singers (as is she ... Mum was a singer in a band years back) and apparently I can hold a reasonable note but wouldn't really call myself a singer. ;-)

Understood.

I've seen those in the Westerns. ;-)

Ok.

Yes, I'm learning that now.

Hehe, will do! ;-) (Do you have anything recorded you can share?)

Understood.

Cheers, T i m

[Brian Gaff]

All this wind operated instrument talk reminds me of the good old Harmonium, the thing with a sort of bellows pump thing on it and a keyboard. I once back in the 90s saw unexpectedly, Kiki Dee playing one and singing simple ballads using it. It made me look at what I had always thought was the sort of thing used in happy clappy Christian churches in a new and more serious way.

Not being very good at playing anything, I'm always amazed at people who are musical. Ho hum.... Brian

[T i m]

That's a difficult question Nick. In the past it's generally turned out to be 'whatever it costs to get something worth having ...', however, in this instance I'm not sure it will / should happen as 1) it was supposed to be a novelty / surprise and 2) we don't have that much cash we can justify on something bought under those grounds atm.

Ah, interesting, I think I've seen them being played cross legged on the floor in films. I think it's a bit big to be the sort of portable / informal thing I was hoping for.

Ok.

That's what I've been doing, along with following up all the suggestions made here.

I was hoping to keep any solution VFM / cheap enough to keep is as a surprise. ;-)

That's good (for us) then. ;-)

Well, whilst you raise a good point, I'm not sure if it will ever go far enough to matter if it's 'fashionable' or not and she's generally not a follower of fashion in the first place. I not that if she *did* want to use it more sociably, it might be more difficult etc.

Hmm, that's looks quite a handful. ;-)

Question on that then ... does anyone do any rustless strings (that work well) to suit a Fender / Squire P bass and / or Strat do you know please?

Cheers, T i m

[Bill]

In message , Nick Odell writes

My daughter plays accordion. She started off with a small Hohner (or may be Hofner, I get mixed up). 12 bass, only does major keys, so fewer sad songs but very, very, very loud. Brilliant and I'd recommend that to anyone with a daughter who already plays piano, but consider ear defenders for the family. Then got a huge red full size one. Chinese Scarletti, I think. She isn't weak, but believe me it was heavy. Consulted a teacher who could only suggest buying a stand to hold it up. Traded that in for a mid sized Hohner, which she now plays. It does minors, but, as she says, not diminisheds whatever they are.

Out of fashion they may be, but it's a great talking point and she sounds great playing it.

Repairing is not that easy. I bought the wax and whatever, but getting one all up and running and in tune was too daunting for me. The bellows is the easy bit.

We have a rough old broken one here just waiting for a competent diy'er to come along.

[T i m]

Ok, cool.

Ok. I did wonder if you had any / much control over the volume on such things (without the chance of under / over blowing them etc).

Understood. ;-)

I've seen that brand mentioned.

Oh.

Quite ... I'm sure my daughter would know. ;-)

That's the thing. When you hear them being played properly (with suitable music etc) it's a good and full sound. It's also interesting how much they also 'fill' when being played with other instruments.

Ok, thanks for that practical feedback.

Hmmm ... ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[Nick Odell]

There are stainless steel strings and gold-plated strings by several well known makers - you just google them and take your choice but they don't seem to be as popular as you might think because of their tone. The metals commonly used in electric and acoustic instrument strings - steel, nickel, brass, bronze - all have characteristics that people like to listen to under different circumstances but the gold plated ones tend to sound a bit lifeless and the stainless steel are a bit lacking in sustain from new. However, it's horses for courses as usual and one or other might be quite nice for certain jazz sounds.

If a player is having a problem with corrosion because of contact with skin - and lots of players do - it's worth remembering that strings are consumables and if they don't rust through then they will reach end of life anyway because the metal temper has changed or they are clagged up with human detrius or they have worn through - all things that stop them playing properly or in tune.

HTH

Nick

[Bill]

If you were interested, I always found

well worth a look. The restoration of an accordion section gives some idea of the challenges.

To be fair to my daughter, she can play softly, but the small instrument lent itself to her applying her natural welly, as it was so easily handled. Her law firm had its own folk/rockish band for a bit and she provided most of the bass, plus melody/backing, on things like "Fairytale of New York". There is some great accordion music out there, Cajun, Central European, and almost anything from Bach to Beatles plus whatever you want to play by ear.

The old one here is probably only fit for landfill or pub decoration, but I am trying my best to clear some space. Nudge, nudge.

[mark.bluemel]

Rod Stradling is a respected UK folk musician with a useful set of resources on his "mustrad.org" site - in this instance, I suggest you look at for a discussion of melodeons.

Depending on what your daughter wants to play, concertina may be the more flexible option. I've heard Bach played very effectively on concertina...

You could also dip your toe in at the Mudcat Cafe - mudcat.org - where you'd get lots of informed feedback.

Regarding rusty strings, in addition to Nick's comments, I'd mention that a number of companies produce coated strings - for a bass, perhaps D'Addario EXP170 would be worth trying.

[T i m]

Very informative, thanks.

Ok. ;-)

That sounded nice. This is the sort of thing *we* would like to see her involved in because we know she is capable and would enjoy the company of like minded people but I'm not sure she appreciates her skills in the same way. Mind you, she's 'only' 27, pretty busy and still not sure knows what she *really* wants to do in her life (and hopefully still has plenty of time to do stuff).

Yeah, I've been listening to quite a bit (when checking out the different instruments mentioned here) and they do seem reasonably flexible stylewise.

Whilst I would *love* to take you up on your kind offer, we are trying to do the same here (thinning out) but don't really seem to be getting anywhere. ;-(

I might be interested to see a picture or two of it though if you have the chance sometime Bill? (this email works)

Cheers, T i m

[The Natural Philosopher]

Real nusicians wipe their strings down and oil them before putting the guitar back in its case.

[T i m]

Loads of info there thanks (another one bookmarked). ;-)

;-) I think it might be 'more flexible' if only that it should be lighter, smaller (therefore easier to take around and store), cheaper(?) and therefore better as an 'occasional instrument.

Again, thanks.

Thanks again Mark. Again, it seems, as with many things muso, they seem to be a Marmite thing ...

Cheers, T i m