OT: Just waiting in the background at a 10% clearup rate Mail readers need this

[Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp]

Like all the other nasties from the US, just waiting, biding their time.

AB

[Bill Wright]

It looks like fun. I might join.

Bill

[Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp]

Solve the crime rate instantly.

Every primary school should have its own branch

AB

[T i m]

Kinderguardians? ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[alan_m]

You miss the point - it's to allow mass shooting of school kids with the approval of fellow gun owners.

[Tim Lamb]

Local small bore rifle ranges were quite common in the post war years. Much declined now.

My uncle was an armaments officer in the RAF and shot regularly at Bisley. If Keswick rifle club are still in being, I hope the Anschutz .22, gifted on his death, was of use. Hardly much use for back of tractor rabbitting:-)

[Bill]

I have to say that, listening as I do to quite a bit of American radio, the NRA's adverts are quite good. They just name a few officials and then say how these are voting to kill your right to get out for a good day's hunting.

They certainly do make it sound like fun. :-)

[T i m]

I'm no fan of static target shooting but disciplines like 'Practical Pistol' were.

I can also see the entertainment value in working with, maintaining, firing (and cleaning ) some of the older rifles and pistols, partly as an appreciation of the engineering / military history and partly making it go bang (and maybe making a hole in a bit of paper 100 yards away). ;-)

The way we in the UK used to allow public ownership of nitro powdered pistols was a world away from the open / concealed carry in the US and I'm pretty sure gun crime is currently way up over what it was when UK citizens could hold their own 'sporting equipment'.

Cheers, T i m

[Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp]

Some years back I worked with weapons, from an engineering perspective. Technically I found the testing of various parameters of what left various barrels fascinating.

I never ever fired a single weapon personally.

I did find that there was an unhealthy interest in guns though, by a fair spread of the visitors to my place of work. We used to do demos of the weapons and equipment for the visitors. I rapidly lost interest in seeing guns being fired, but I was amazed at some of the expressions on visitors faces when I turned my observations to them instead of the weaponry.

I thought then, much as I do now that there is something about firearms that attracts the wrong people.

AB

[T i m]

Ok.

It is indeed.

Ok.

Assuming they had gone there to view such activities, wasn't that to be expected?

Ok.

Yup, like my mate did with chocolate when working at Cadbury's or the strippers for the barman at the strip club.

I watched a bit of 'Mud Men' on TV yesterday when they had a chance to fire a machine gun. Ignoring it's design purpose, I could see exactly why running a couple of belts though such would be a real blast for most people (if only once).

I agree, when you describe the interest as 'unhealthy', but for many they are just a work tool (hunter, gamekeeper, farmer or soldier) or a piece of sporting equipment (clay shooter, target shooter, biathlon etc), no different to them as a shot or pole to others.

But (ignoring the Army or Police etc), there is a massive difference between the above and anyone who takes anything (gun, knife, sock full of snooker balls, pencil or fist) and uses it to cause harm to another living creature and for no justifiable reason.

Cheers, T i m

[alan_m]

[alan_m]

I can vouch for that. 30(ish) years ago I got the chance to live fire a range of weapons in an afternoon with the UK military: Pistol, sniper rifle, SA80, light machine gun (a box of belt ammunition), heavy machine gun (a box of belt ammunition), heavy mortar (with high explosive ammunition) and a chain gun. I got a real buzz from the experience.

This was part of a one week course aimed at educating civilians designing equipment used by the military.

The high points of the weeks activities were countered by some very low points such as being trotted down to the obstacle course in a full Nuclear Biological Chemical suit and only then being allowed to remove the mask to complete the obstacle course. I don't think I've been so cold, wet and muddy since the 24 hour exercise where we were made to crawl through a farm yard, in complete darkness, that had been recent vacated by a herd of cows

[Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp]

The military could be worse than anyone. At my site one of the MOD police held up a HPTO at gunpoint. The site was not large, everyone was on first name terms.

The police were not normally armed though, this one got his thrill because the IRA were performing.

AB

[T i m]

I bet (in more ways than one). ;-)

Good idea and something that should be done more often in all industries. Like the apprenticeships of old where you learned all the aspects of a job, even if you ended up specialising in one.

;-)

Made a man of you? ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[alan_m]

This was aimed at more experienced engineers/designers who could influence a design. The messages that the military were trying to get over were done in a subtle way that would be remembered.

Another high point was driving a Warrior armoured vehicle and a Chieftain tank at high speed across very rough terrain. One simple thing they pointed out at the same time that there is no free space in these vehicles and every piece of equipment is a potential step to get in and out of the hatches. In addition, fit a toggle switch to the front of the equipment and match it with a size 10 army boot and the toggle breaks off.

There were very many such messages during the week on everything from electronic equipment to clothing, food[1], tents, sleeping bags, ammunition, jamming guns etc.

[1] On a classroom morning we ate in the officers mess for lunch but on some field days field rations were provided. I don't know what was added to the food but I didn't have a shit for 4 days.

[T i m]

Ok.

Cool.

I bet.

I'd hope that didn't really need explaining to any designer did it? [1]

From my exposure to the Civil Service they are often both pushing the boundaries (Martlesham Heath?) and sticking with what they know / have )often for a good few years, albeit over various versions).

That might be handy if in a field. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[1] I used to race RC catamarans (one of two sponsored drivers) and designed and built a lid catch that was easy to make, fit, adjust and use but near impossible to get off without pressing in the right place. It needed to be like that because you had the get the lid on quickly after starting but didn't want it coming off it the boat hit the water upside down at high speed, if it was hit by another boat or if was picked up by a marshal by the lid etc.

[Vir Campestris]

AFAIK there's no connection between the NRA that lobbies for the right to wear guns in the street in the US, and the UK NRA that's been running target shooting for 150 years or so.

Andy

[alan_m]

But are they not opposing the clauses in the UK Offensive Weapons Bill which seeks to prohibit the UK public ownership of high muzzle energy and rapid firing rifles?

[The Natural Philosopher]

I hope so.

Thats a valid hunting rifle for deer culling and fox control

>

[Vir Campestris]

I just looked:

led me to

which has some other links. It boils down to:

- There are very few of these weapons in the UK. 64 licensed ones; there seems to be some evidence that there are a lot more than that around.

- There's a suggestion that one of these 64 might get stolen, and someone might get murdered. So they want to invent another new law to add to our existing tons of red tape to cover those 64 legal weapons.

And the NRA take?

"We are reviewing the proposals and working up our response"

So currently - no, they are not opposing those clauses.

Though it would seem to me perfectly reasonable if they were. They have a valid use in target shooting.

Andy