OT: I hate ECO

[AnthonyL]

I replaced my old Focus 1.6 with a newer model Focus 1.8. All specs showed about the same mpg. In reality the old car did around 40mpg in all conditions and better than that on motorway runs keeping up with the traffic.

New model does 40mpg when the weather is warm, the engine has warmed up, the road is flat and I'm not doing over 60mph. On average it is

10% less fuel efficient than my old model even though I find myself driving it more carefully.

Earlier this year the old AEG washing machine failed - well the bearings were going and it was 18yrs old so decided to replace. Nice Bosch with all those ECO markings. My year-on-year electricity useage is up. I can't set the machine to run off the timer so it is hard to keep within Economy 7. The machine doesn't have a hot water inlet so it can't use the hot water I've either generated in E7 or from the coal fire back boiler and the cycle is a lot longer.

Of course some of the usage could be due to the new freezer I had to buy in the summer - no surely not! It only holds 80% as much as the old one despite being the same outer dimensions. Can't stock up on one weekly shop anymore so have to do another mini-shop. Very ECO as the shops are 6 miles from where I live.

I see on gridwatch that coal + CCGT's are busy whilst another turbine objects to the wind blowing.

Where's commonsense and proper engineering when you need it?

[Tim Streater]

Everyone is buying a 700mm wide fridge or freezer (rather than 600), aren't they? A lot more space inside.

[polygonum]

Which will not fit in a standard 600 mm gap, will it? This is a huge (ha ha!) issue for lots of people. Including us. We would be perfectly happy to get a 700 (or larger) freezer and/or refrigerator but it would require a complete redesign and replacement of the kitchen. There certainly wouldn't be any savings in even the medium term.

[Davey]

We have a large vertical fridge-freezer unit. It is known as the Anti-Tardis. I leave you to work out why.

[tim.....]

Eh

A full freezer load lasts me for about 3 months (of course I have to go out to buy perishables weekly or more frequently)

either you have a tinziest tiniest freezer in the world, and really ought to have bought a bigger one, or a phenomenally large family

tim

[Fredxxx]

In the past I have downsized a kitchen unit to suit. It's not that difficult if it's a single door unit.

[Tim Streater]

The reason I'm mentioning it at all is that most people don't seem to think about a wider one - even when they *are* redoing the kitchen. And yet the extra space is quite a lot.

[Capitol]

I haven't seen any 700mm fridges or freezers that I can recall, except catering ones. I've been looking for a 20cuft upright freezer for a couple of years and have yet to find one with drawers for a reasonable price and which will pass through a standard kitchen door in the UK market. There's a similar shortage of wide side by side fridge freezers with internal drawers or alternatively, wide fridge freezers where the upright freezer section is bigger than the fridge section.

[Huge]

No.

[Davey]

That's the part of our large Hotpoint that we threw out, the ice never separated from the trays. When we lived in the US, we always had those wonderful plumbed in ones that just made ice without any action on the peoples' part. Even with a party, we never ran out of ice. That the Hotpoint didn't offer one is unbelievable.

[spuorgelgoog]

I blame the CFC-free insulation, and the fashion for over-sided 'retro' fridge freezers. Filling lots of space with cheap foam is probably cheaper than having more space inside and more lining material, larger shelves and drawers etc.

Owain

[Bill Wright]

I don't like the idea of having the freezer in the kitchen. Kitchens get warm so the freezer will use more power. And freezers catch fire now and then. And they whirr and buzz.

I have my freezers in a shed.

Bill

[Davey]

Agreed that the requirement for ice is less here in the winter, but we still use it. The wife likes iced water, for one, and my vodka is better with ice. And thinking about the space issue, the icemakers in the US all hung from the roof of the highest compartment, so were never in the way of anything, and if one wanted, the ice bucket could have just been removed to make space on the shelf. Lifting the sensing lever stops it making ice. But each to his own. We saw 'fridges with icemakers when we were looking for one, but none of those machines ticked all the boxes. I can fully appreciate that the flip-it device is fine if engineered properly, unlike our Hotpoint's.

[harryagain]

No washing machines have hot water connections these days. Very little hot water made it to the machinine in any case. Dumping laundry in hot water sets in the stains anyway and hence is a bad thing.

You need to get one of those plug in meters and do a proper survey of your house to find out where power is being used. The main culprits in my house are the TV and freezers. Though they do contribute to keeping the house warm.

[harryagain]

The new A and A+ energy rated freezers have thicker insulation. Can't have it both ways.

[PeterC]

There is insulation that is very effective - the ceramic(?) sort used on the space shuttle. It would be v. expensive to buy and would need to be built as a box, a fragile box, but it would be thin. I saw a clip where a tile had been heated from one side and it was possible to touch the other, red-hot, side without being burnt.

[Andy Burns]

Few, rather than none ...

True - I went out of my way to find a H&C fill about 8 years ago, the machine was so different from my previous one

a) such little water used it barely drew the cold leg off the hot tank

b) even if you drew the cold off before starting a wash, it fills (in my case) low pressure hot and mains pressure cold at the same time, rather than some of one then some of the other, so the cold "wins"

c) the detergents are now aimed at lower temperatures, I've heard it said the enzymes like to get to work while cold, and then be slowly heated during the wash, rather than start hot which kills them quickly.

[john james]

Not if it only turns on the hot water and not the cold.

Yes, plenty do work fine with cold water and have done for decades now.

There can be a problem dissolving the detergent in cold water tho so you can get detergent scum with dark fabrics.

Not with well designed enzymes.

[Andy Burns]

As I said, mine takes them both concurrently, at least on the common programmes.

I notice the Hotpoint above even has a 20 degree programme, rather than

30 degree.

Only repeating what I heard.

[Tim Streater]

Well you can't kill them because they are not alive. They are catalysts rather like the platinum in your catalytic converter: they make chemical reactions that would otherwise go slowly, go very fast.