OT: I hate ECO

[harryagain]

You might find the soleniod valve packs in shortly. Not intended for hot water.

[harryagain]

Usual drivel. People run the cold water off until they get hot water. Doesn't happen with a washing machine.

[harryagain]

Well get out and do it. You're getting older all the time. :-)

[harryagain]

Cavity is a waste of space.

My wiring is all in plastic conduit drops from the roof space, cemented into the innner leaf which is 200mm of brick/concrete for thermal mass. There is 600mm of insulation and an outer leaf of Durox lightweight concrete blocks. Retrospectively, the Durox should have been ordinary concrete.

No time for armchair fantasists. Get off your arse.

[harryagain]

I have recently got an additional 4Kw of panels mounted on a timber structure in the garden. This means in Winter there is more power available for my own use. (= less use of mains electricity)

Also more to export. (=more FIT money) I will now generate twice as much as I use. Many of my neighbours have PV panels too.

Interesting comparing the performance of the two arrays. Not what I was expecting but early days yet.

[Capitol]

Useless opinion stated as fact.

[Capitol]

Who insures them against breakage or failure?

[dennis]

You found a "professional" to fit them to a wooden frame?

Two meters now then, no cross connecting them to fiddle the fits.

[Uncle Peter]

I've never known having to run a hot tap for more than a few seconds to get hot. It takes a washing machine more than a few seconds to fill.

[Vir Campestris]

Our tank is about 40ft from the machine. And we don't have gas...

Cold fill works for us. I'm trying to persuade my wife we ought to have a little electric cylinder under the sink when we refit the kitchen.

Andy

[Chris French]

Our is probably at least that to our kitchen tape, takes about 15 -20 sec to get warm water (depending on how fast it's running obviously) and more to the washing machine.

Yup. And I suspect that even on a hot wash, a modern machine starts warm and heats up to let the enzymes work first.

I considering that as well. Or, since we will probably replace the boiler at that point, having a combi for the kitchen/utility HW and keep the tank for the bathrooms/toilets

[Uncle Peter]

I've removed my hot water tank because it never gets used. Washing machine, dishwasher, and shower all heat their own, so no point in it taking up room.

[Tony Bryer]

Here in my Docklands high-rise before showering I have to run the basin tap at full blast for 30 secs to get hot water. Across the year, that's like leaving the tap running for three hours plus. Just a bit of poor design that will probably be with the building for 100 years.

[Chris J Dixon]

How does your payback calculation look for the new units, with lower cost and FIT compared with your original installation?

Chris

[harryagain]

Well then, you may as well turn the heater off and save electricity/other fuel as well.

[harryagain]

That is what I have. One for each tap.

+HW cylinder is right next to baths and shower.

Powered off the PV panels by day. But could be used on economy seven.

Instant hot water, no waste.

Thing to watch out for is standing heat losses, ie you need a well insulated one. Also design pipework so there are no convection losses.

Do your sizing calculations too.

[harryagain]

I only insure stuff I can't afford to replace/mustdo legally. Insurance companies are only out to makemoney. So thats the house and the car.

[harryagain]

What do you supposeyour house roof is made of shit-fer-brains?

[harryagain]

Not as good clearly. I reckon on a 10% return on the new array. The old array was around 18%. These are total benefit calculations, nor just FIT income. (ie electricity and petrol saved) Old array cost ?14,000. New one was ?6,500 Old FIT payment now ?0.5/Kwh. approx. New FIT payment ?0.1303+fixed payment. A lot depends on how the RPI changes (hence FIT payments) and the cost of the electricity I save.

Obviously there is less saving to be made with the second array, I will save more only in low generation/sunlight times.

A lot depends on you being in the house when power is available (ie retired/working from home) And having use for the power. (eg water heating, electric car, laundry. cooking etc.)

Major fault/expense could bugger things up. (eg inverter)

(I charge up the electric car) I plan journies/charging times according to the weather when possible.

However the project was in part something to pass time. Interesting making the timber PV array support as the gradient was adverse.

[Uncle Peter]

Easier not to bother with hot water you pussy.