Each time I have looked at switching, the offered plans are not the same, so I would need to make accurate predictions of my future usage and energy costs to make a fair comparison. And making best guesses based on history has never proved any substantial benefit. Hindsight might change the result, but that is no good.
That is, I suspect, a big reason why more people don't switch suppliers.
the shower as a whole is under 10% efficient, most of the energy used is wasted. People have looked at various ways to improve it.
NT
You need a double flush to clear the vomit.
= 6.5 million hours a day = 2.4 billion hours a year. At [guess] £12.
50/hr that's £30 billion every single year. There are other points to fac tor in as well.What effect the delay has on time use wll vary greatly, hence it's more com plex and would be less than £30bn/yr. Even at half that it's a monstrous waste of productive time.
power stations generally produce gigawatts rather than megawatts. There's n o way it would cost £30bn /per annum/ to have another 10MW of capacity. F or a station with 50 year life that would be, very very roughly, 50x30 = £1.5 trillion just for 10MW. If you scale that upto 1GW it would come to £150 trillion. Power stations don't cost that much :)
this stuff has all been built & tested, and is used on a fair scale in indu stry, hotels, etc. There's no real mileage in claiming it's an unknown.
cheaper to supply yes, but more economical no. It would cost Britain the fo rtune mentioned above. Only a fool would choose for UK to not invest in tha t extra 10MW with its awesome payback.
reases total cost, not reduces it.
Of course it cuts generation & distribution cost to trim the peaks. But who would save on £1 of paint when it meant they'd need to spend on welding in new sills later?
There are also far better ways to reduce peak demand, ways that don't cost the country a monstrous fortune.
NT
I have to abide by EU laws, and trust me it is onerous.
NT
t the country a monstrous fortune.
Electric showers are ripe for energy improvements. Freezers could raise their setpoint 1C when frequency drop indicates a heav ily loaded supply. Lighting could be better controlled. I'd estimate that a good 50% of it doe sn't need to be on for any reason at any given time. The current crop of PI Rs is definitely not adequate for this, much better algorithms are required . Immersion heaters could drop setpoint 2 or 3 degrees at peak times etc. It's all doable without insane cost to the nation. But frankly just giving up messing with everyone, imposing dumb ideas on everyone's lives would be a far better option. Create some voluntary standards instead that some prod ucts could boast conformance to.
NT
Abiding by any laws and regulations can be onerous. Including UK made ones. Part P etc springs to mind.
You'd need to give some examples and justify why they're unnecessary. Too many seem to rely on the 'bent banana' etc stories. And so on. So it would be nice to hear from the horse's mouth.
One which did have a direct effect on me was the working time directive. Improved the quality of my life. But that didn't stop those to whom it made no difference disliking it.
Such kettles are great, as long as they have duo cut off temperatures. Ours is 85C and 100C, but it does it the sensible way and defaults to
100C each time unless you press the "85C" button. It is indeed good for making instant coffee :)Going back to your point, the one we have has electronic temp cut-off (with tradition safety backup) and cuts off far quicker than "traditional" ones when boiling. Of course it may not necessarily be getting to the indicated 100C ...
Agreed and I thought they were trying to get the suppliers to be more transparent that way?
True, however a guesstimation could be better than doing nothing?
Quite. ;-)
I think you are right ... 'out of the frying pan ... ' 'better the devil you know ...' and of course 'CBA'. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
Yes, it would be if it was.
;-)
Ok.
It is an unknown to me (and that all I was 'claiming'). So, is the fact that very few domestic sites have installed any form of heat exchanger (be it for waste water, or air) an indication of the 'it's not worth it', the CBA (for the upheaval), they simply don't know about it or (and this is my bet), that even if they did and were shown the potential savings, *still* wouldn't be bothered?
It was like the potential expansion of the use of electric cars during the last fuel crises ... till Monday when the fuel comes back and they go out and by another 4x4. Until it 'costs more', or the savings are demonstrably very good, I don't think most people CBA.
Like this place, Victorian eot - hence solid brick walls (and one in a wind tunnel) so we don't have central heating because the flank wall would end up like a storage rad for the world. So, we could line it ... or even clad it on the outside but it's all too much hassle for the few weeks each year where it matters.
Ok ...
Erm ... I was just suggesting that we don't invest in any costs, just savings.
Unfortunately, many people, inc our government it seems?
'Might' cost ... ;-)
Cheers, T i m
Ok, that all makes sense.
Other than the vast cost of all these new 'intelligent devices you mean?
I question the lower rated kettles and toasters would be (a good idea), if it means we don't have power cuts? Like, removing n billion incandescent lamps and forcing people to go low energy when they
*replace* the existing is one way of getting us all to reduce the load (ignoring the reliability of some of today's alternative offerings etc). Once we have an infinite supply of non fossil fuel energy (at the times we actually need it so harrys PV utopia isn't the answer) , everyone can have 10kW kettles for all it will matter. ;-)Of course, if we agree that we could (should?) consume less energy, (unit we have worked out a green alternative yada yada) then the 'how' is the devil in the detail and I would rather be able to have tea when I want it (all be it takes a bit longer and costs a fraction more), that would be better than sitting in the dark.
Cheers, T i m
That's funny ... the Mrs came out with an unusually incitefull comment earlier today in that could well be happening anyway, given how many people now don't watch TV live. Her watching her TV through her STB on her PC has certainly impacted on how often she makes us tea as she doesn't have to endure the adverts any more.
Cheers, T i m
Yup. I'm guessing there must still be a maximum 'efficiency' rate you can transfer (conduction?) the heat energy to the water? Push it too hard you might cause localise boiling by conduction before the water temperature has had chance to equalise via convection, causing the air (steam?) around the element to create some insulation? Unless the steam can impart more heat to the water than conduction from the element can?
So, how much advantage would there be to a 'thermos' / double skinned kettle body over say a plastic one do we think? At least that might keep the heat in between boilings, assuming you don't only boil exactly what you use each time (and that didn't carry any other risk like legionnaires disease etc). And of course this is really only for the summer ... ;-)
Well, unless you can? ;-)
Cheers, T i m
I too have one which offers options below 100C but it was my choice to spend the extra money (and to accept that it's one more thing to go wrong). I would take some convincing that it should be imposed on everyone buying a new kettle, even if they default to 100C (and there would be arguments to default to a lower temperature to save energy given the majority don't drink proper tea). I also don't feel encouraged by comments such as "Mandatory durability requirements may also protect those reputable EU-based kettle manufacturers that already make significant efforts to achieve high reliability durable products from low priced less reliable Asian imports." So much for free trade and consumer choice? And what system are we meant to trust on durability: the same as regulated breast implants?
I don't know what our Bosch[1] has but it patently ain't a traditional "steam pipe" set-up. The sensor sits in the water near the bottom. But on 100C it don't cut out until after some 5~10 seconds of really rolling boiling.
And JOOI do you know how an electronic temp cut-off deals with kettles which are used at altitude so boiling point is
Is your electricity use really that unpredictable?
snippage
Heh :)
Good point though, if it never reaches 100C, it won't cut off until it runs dry...
The one we have uses a thermistor and a microcontroller and displays the current water temp on a 2 digit lcd. Overkill much?
One thing that did surprise me, when I had cause to open the thing up to "repair" the "kettle has boiled" beeper :) Was the tiny little relay used to switch the element. Obviously it must be up to the job, but did I mention it is tiny? :)
I bought an insulated kettle a few weeks ago when my old one started to leak. Its quite good and holds the heat for a fair bit. Most useful for when you refill the kettle as it saves a lot of the energy left in the remaining boiling water. I have no idea if it will save much as I bought it because its safe to touch not to save energy.
That's the thought.
So, what make and model, watts and is it heavy to lift OOI? Even if it's low(er) power, that might only really impact on the first boiling (assuming you don't use all the water up each time etc).
Cheers, T i m
I don't have to. I dip into ukdiy to take little breaks from working, and t hat's fine but there are limits to how much time I want to spend. Those of us that do have to work with laws derived directly from EU directives know that they do have a tendency to be more problematic than UK derived laws, b oth in onerousness and other issues. I could talk about the laws involved i n putting new products on the retail market, but don't really want to take the time it would require to do it justice.
It affects us all indirectly.
NT
ndustry, hotels, etc.
The overwhelming majority have never heard of DHEs. I suspect it's all thos e reasons & more. It also isn't 'sexy,' whatever that means when applied to objects. It's about as appealing as having concrete drains instead of oran geburg. The uspide is real but most just don't care.
NT
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